[N8VEM: 20092] Re: KISS Board Running

John

Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz.

I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find them in my limited
search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns parts -- but on DIMMs!
Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!

Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a Rigol DP832.
Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA resolution.
Loading Image...

Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current measuring mode in
series with the power line.

Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.

Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just John!)

- Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port on this
machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the board. Wasn't
obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play nice with each
other.

- I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K board to work on
the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about adding an ELF loader
to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and possibly a
ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from the FAT
filesystem and reduce CF card swapping. Before I invest a lot of time on
this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?

Will

Post by John Coffman
Will,
I assume you are running the clocks at 32 & 64Mhz. I see similar
stability with 2 x 128Mb EDO SIMMs from '1-800-4memory', likewise on
MT 4LC16M4H9-5 chips. My CPU is not as fast, so I am clocking 25 &
64Mhz. (Non-parity memory) The EDO feature of installed memory is not
used by KISS-68030 circuitry, so similar results should be obtainable
using FPM SIMMs.
BTW: How/where are you measuring the board current?
--John

_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

John Coffman

2015-09-10 03:00:14 UTC

Post by William R Sowerbutts
John
Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz.
I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find them in my limited
search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns parts -- but on DIMMs!
Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!
Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a Rigol DP832.
Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA resolution.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg

Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line. Inside of the
power supply is a good place.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current measuring mode in
series with the power line.
Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.
Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just John!)
- Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port on this
machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the board. Wasn't
obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play nice with each
other.

Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken. Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.

Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces. Especially one that can generate interrupts. I have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill. At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

Post by William R Sowerbutts
- I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K board to work on
the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about adding an ELF loader
to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and possibly a
ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from the FAT
filesystem and reduce CF card swapping. Before I invest a lot of time on
this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?

The FAT loader is a good idea. I also have it running, and posted the
work-in-progress on the Wiki. I have not tried to get CP/M-68 running,
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was the best route.

I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running withing
BIOS9. With that driver, CF card swapping would be avoided, and the
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable.

BTW: I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes.
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.

--John

_________________________________________________________________________
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

Max Scane

2015-09-10 04:36:41 UTC

Hi John,

A four port serial ECB card would be rather nice!

Perhaps one of the ports could have a header for a FTDI USB module?

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716

That interface seems to be fairly standard so you could also plug in a
Bluetooth module as well...

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580

Cheers!

Max

DIMMs!

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!
Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a Rigol

DP832.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA resolution.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg

Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line. Inside of the
power supply is a good place.

each

Post by William R Sowerbutts
other.

Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken. Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.
Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces. Especially one that can generate interrupts. I have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill. At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

Post by William R Sowerbutts
- I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K board to

work on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about adding an ELF

loader

Post by William R Sowerbutts
to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and possibly a
ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from the FAT
filesystem and reduce CF card swapping. Before I invest a lot of

time on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?

The FAT loader is a good idea. I also have it running, and posted the
work-in-progress on the Wiki. I have not tried to get CP/M-68 running,
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was the best route.
I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running withing
BIOS9. With that driver, CF card swapping would be avoided, and the
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable.
BTW: I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes.
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.
--John

Hi all
Quick update.
I am now running with two 128MB SIMMs. 16/64M jumper is now in place,

and I

have switched to TEST4.BIN for testing.
TEST4.BIN tests memory addresses up to 0x10000000 ie 256MB, so the

increased

memory size appears to be correctly recognised. All passes, zero

errors (so

far) with cache enabled.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750
6 days from order to receipt including US to UK shipping. Not bad!
DRAMs are KM44C16104AK-6, 60ns Samsung EDO 16Mx4 DRAM, 16 chips per

SIMM.

Main difference I have observed is that the peak current has increased

from

approx 1.25A to 1.42A.
Will

_________________________________________________________________________

William R Sowerbutts
"Carpe post meridiem"

http://sowerbutts.com

(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts
"Carpe post meridiem"

http://sowerbutts.com

Post by William R Sowerbutts
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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John Coffman

2015-09-10 14:03:06 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Max, 
 
I am aware of that line of FTDI interface boards.  Thank you for
making me aware of the Bluetooth board that uses the same
connection. 
 
I had thought along the lines of a high-speed chip like TL16C754BFN,
four outputs: 
 
    1.  TTL levels for FTDI/USB adapter board 
    2.  DB9F on-board, connected as a Modem through MAX232/235 
    3.  2 x 10-pin headers, connected as Terminals through MAX232's
(traditional N8) 
 
Separate interrupt jumpers for each channel.  TTL level options for
several/all of the channels--that Arundino 6-pin connection is
consistent. 
 
--John 
 
 
 
On 09/09/2015 09:36 PM, Max Scane wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADv-***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi John,
<div> 
</div>
<div>A four port serial ECB card would be rather nice!</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div>Perhaps one of the ports could have a header for a FTDI USB
module?</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716</a> 
</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div>That interface seems to be fairly standard so you could
also plug in a Bluetooth module as well...</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580</a> 
</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div> 
</div>
<div>Max</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> 
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 1:00 PM, John
Coffman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: 
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;"> 
 
On 09/09/2015 02:02 PM, William R Sowerbutts wrote: 
> John 
> 
> Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz. 
> 
> I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find
them in my limited 
> search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns
parts -- but on DIMMs! 
> Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those! 
> 
> Current consumption is being measured on my power
supply. It's a Rigol DP832. 
> Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to
1mV/1mA resolution. 
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg</a> 
Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line.Â 
Inside of the 
power supply is a good place. 
> Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current
measuring mode in 
> series with the power line. 
> 
> Just passed 100 iterations without error in this
configuration. 
> 
> Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just
John!) 
> 
>Â  - Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second
serial port on this 
>Â  Â  machine? Obviously using a different I/O address
for the board. Wasn't 
>Â  Â  obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers
would play nice with each 
>Â  Â  other. 
Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give
different responses 
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA
cycle is 
taken.Â  Only one interrupt controller should be on the
ECB-bus. 
 
Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with
multiple 
serial interfaces.Â  Especially one that can generate
interrupts.Â  I have 
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1
IBM 
parallel) chip would fill the bill.Â  At least one of those
serial 
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on
a soldered 
adapter board). 
 
 
>Â  - I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the
Mini-68K board to work on 
>Â  Â  the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking
about adding an ELF loader 
>Â  Â  to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary
loader, and possibly a 
>Â  Â  ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download
files from the FAT 
>Â  Â  filesystem and reduce CF card swapping.Â  Before I
invest a lot of time on 
>Â  Â  this, is there a more obvious choice to put in
ROM? 
The FAT loader is a good idea.Â  I also have it running, and
posted the 
work-in-progress on the Wiki.Â  I have not tried to get
CP/M-68 running, 
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was
the best route. 
 
I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running
withing 
BIOS9.Â  With that driver, CF card swapping would be
avoided, and the 
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable. 
 
BTW:Â  I have a good third party library of
FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes. 
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also. 
 
--John 
 
 
 
> Will 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 12:32:10PM -0700, John Coffman
wrote: 
>> Will, 
>> 
>> I assume you are running the clocks at 32 &
64Mhz.Â  I see similar 
>> stability with 2 x 128Mb EDO SIMMs from
'1-800-4memory', likewise on 
>> eBay @ same $40.Â  The difference is use of Micron
parts, 16 per board: 
>> MT 4LC16M4H9-5 chips.Â  My CPU is not as fast, so I
am clocking 25 & 
>> 64Mhz.Â  (Non-parity memory)Â  The EDO feature of
installed memory is not 
>> used by KISS-68030 circuitry, so similar results
should be obtainable 
>> using FPM SIMMs. 
>> 
>> BTW:Â  How/where are you measuring the board
current? 
>> 
>> --John 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 09/09/2015 06:38 AM, William R Sowerbutts wrote: 
>>> Hi all 
>>> 
>>> Quick update. 
>>> 
>>> I am now running with two 128MB SIMMs. 16/64M
jumper is now in place, and I 
>>> have switched to TEST4.BIN for testing. 
>>> 
>>> TEST4.BIN tests memory addresses up to
0x10000000 ie 256MB, so the increased 
>>> memory size appears to be correctly recognised.
All passes, zero errors (so 
>>> far) with cache enabled. 
>>> 
>>> Memory was sourced for $40 plus shipping from
"memorymasters" on eBay: 
>>>Â  Â <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750</a> 
>>> 6 days from order to receipt including US to UK
shipping. Not bad! 
>>> 
>>> DRAMs are KM44C16104AK-6, 60ns Samsung EDO
16Mx4 DRAM, 16 chips per SIMM. 
>>> 
>>> Main difference I have observed is that the
peak current has increased from 
>>> approx 1.25A to 1.42A. 
>>> 
>>> Will 
>>> 
>>>
_________________________________________________________________________ 
>>> William R SowerbuttsÂ  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a> 
>>> "Carpe post meridiem"Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sowerbutts.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://sowerbutts.com</a> 
>>>Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  main(){char*s=">#=0>
^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for 
>>>Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));} 
>>> 
>>> 
>
_________________________________________________________________________ 
> William R SowerbuttsÂ  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a> 
> "Carpe post meridiem"Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
Â  Â  Â  Â  Â <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sowerbutts.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://sowerbutts.com</a> 
>Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  main(){char*s=">#=0>
^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for 
>Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));} 
> 
> 
 
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William R Sowerbutts

2015-09-10 14:28:55 UTC

My issue with that FTDI board is that it breaks out DTR pin instead of RTS.

Maybe the signal fed to that pin could be jumper selectable, or RTS could be
available on a 7th pin.

W

Max,
I am aware of that line of FTDI interface boards. Thank you for making me
aware of the Bluetooth board that uses the same connection.
I had thought along the lines of a high-speed chip like TL16C754BFN, four
1. TTL levels for FTDI/USB adapter board
2. DB9F on-board, connected as a Modem through MAX232/235
3. 2 x 10-pin headers, connected as Terminals through MAX232's
(traditional N8)
Separate interrupt jumpers for each channel. TTL level options for several/all
of the channels--that Arundino 6-pin connection is consistent.
--John
Hi John,
A four port serial ECB card would be rather nice!
Perhaps one of the ports could have a header for a FTDI USB module?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716
That interface seems to be fairly standard so you could also plug in a
Bluetooth module as well...
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580
Cheers!
Max

Post by William R Sowerbutts
John
Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz.
I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find them in my

limited

Post by William R Sowerbutts
search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns parts -- but on

DIMMs!

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!
Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a

Rigol DP832.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA

resolution.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg

Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line.Â Inside of the
power supply is a good place.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current measuring mode

Post by William R Sowerbutts
series with the power line.
Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.
Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just John!)
Â - Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port on

this

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the board.

Wasn't

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play nice

with each

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â other.

Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken.Â Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.
Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces.Â Especially one that can generate interrupts.Â I
have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill.Â At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â - I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K board to

work on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about adding an

ELF loader

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and

possibly a

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from the

FAT

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â filesystem and reduce CF card swapping.Â Before I invest a lot

of time on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?

The FAT loader is a good idea.Â I also have it running, and posted the
work-in-progress on the Wiki.Â I have not tried to get CP/M-68
running,
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was the best route.
I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running withing
BIOS9.Â With that driver, CF card swapping would be avoided, and the
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable.
BTW:Â I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes.
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.
--John

Will,
I assume you are running the clocks at 32 & 64Mhz.Â I see similar
stability with 2 x 128Mb EDO SIMMs from '1-800-4memory', likewise on
MT 4LC16M4H9-5 chips.Â My CPU is not as fast, so I am clocking 25 &
64Mhz.Â (Non-parity memory)Â The EDO feature of installed memory

is not

used by KISS-68030 circuitry, so similar results should be

obtainable

using FPM SIMMs.
BTW:Â How/where are you measuring the board current?
--John

Hi all
Quick update.
I am now running with two 128MB SIMMs. 16/64M jumper is now in

place, and I

have switched to TEST4.BIN for testing.
TEST4.BIN tests memory addresses up to 0x10000000 ie 256MB, so the

increased

memory size appears to be correctly recognised. All passes, zero

errors (so

far) with cache enabled.
Memory was sourced for $40 plus shipping from "memorymasters" on
Â Â http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750
6 days from order to receipt including US to UK shipping. Not bad!
DRAMs are KM44C16104AK-6, 60ns Samsung EDO 16Mx4 DRAM, 16 chips per

SIMM.

Main difference I have observed is that the peak current has

increased from

approx 1.25A to 1.42A.
Will

_________________________________________________________________________

William R SowerbuttsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
"Carpe post meridiem"Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Â http://sowerbutts.com
for

Â Â Â Â Â (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?

42:32));}
_________________________________________________________________________

Post by William R Sowerbutts
William R SowerbuttsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
"Carpe post meridiem"Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

http://sowerbutts.com

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Â Â Â Â Â (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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John Coffman

2015-09-10 19:06:40 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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Will, 
 
There are other FTDI board that use more than 6 pins; e.g., 
 
   <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/111514068357">http://www.ebay.com/itm/111514068357</a>        (6-pin i/f  +  18-pin
i/f) 
 
Two separate interfaces. 
 
--John 
 
 
 
 
On 09/10/2015 07:28 AM, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@sowerbutts.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">My issue with that FTDI board is that it breaks out DTR pin instead of RTS.

Maybe the signal fed to that pin could be jumper selectable, or RTS could be
available on a 7th pin.

W

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:03:06AM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Max,

I am aware of that line of FTDI interface boards. Thank you for making me
aware of the Bluetooth board that uses the same connection.

I had thought along the lines of a high-speed chip like TL16C754BFN, four
outputs:

1. TTL levels for FTDI/USB adapter board
2. DB9F on-board, connected as a Modem through MAX232/235
3. 2 x 10-pin headers, connected as Terminals through MAX232's
(traditional N8)

Separate interrupt jumpers for each channel. TTL level options for several/all
of the channels--that Arundino 6-pin connection is consistent.

--John

On 09/09/2015 09:36 PM, Max Scane wrote:

Hi John,

A four port serial ECB card would be rather nice!

Perhaps one of the ports could have a header for a FTDI USB module?

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716</a>

That interface seems to be fairly standard so you could also plug in a
Bluetooth module as well...

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580</a>

Cheers!

Max

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 1:00 PM, John Coffman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com"><***@gmail.com></a> wrote:

On 09/09/2015 02:02 PM, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
> John
>
> Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz.
>
> I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find them in my
limited
> search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns parts -- but on
DIMMs!
> Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!
>
> Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a
Rigol DP832.
> Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA
resolution.
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg" style="padding: 7px 8px; background-color: #F6FEFF; border-left: 1px solid #8FF1FF; margin: 10px 0px; display: inline-block; color: #3B5053; font-size: 13px; ">Loading Image...

</a>
Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line.Ã‚ Inside of the
power supply is a good place.
> Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current measuring mode
in
> series with the power line.
>
> Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.
>
> Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just John!)
>
>Ã‚ - Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port on
this
>Ã‚ Ã‚ machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the board.
Wasn't
>Ã‚ Ã‚ obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play nice
with each
>Ã‚ Ã‚ other.
Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different
responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken.Ã‚ Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.

Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces.Ã‚ Especially one that can generate interrupts.Ã‚ I
have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill.Ã‚ At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

>Ã‚ - I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K board to
work on
>Ã‚ Ã‚ the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about adding an
ELF loader
>Ã‚ Ã‚ to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and
possibly a
>Ã‚ Ã‚ ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from the
FAT
>Ã‚ Ã‚ filesystem and reduce CF card swapping.Ã‚ Before I invest a lot
of time on
>Ã‚ Ã‚ this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?
The FAT loader is a good idea.Ã‚ I also have it running, and posted the
work-in-progress on the Wiki.Ã‚ I have not tried to get CP/M-68
running,
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was the best
route.

I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running withing
BIOS9.Ã‚ With that driver, CF card swapping would be avoided, and the
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable.

BTW:Ã‚ I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes.
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.

--John

> Will
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 12:32:10PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>> Will,
>>
>> I assume you are running the clocks at 32 & 64Mhz.Ã‚ I see similar
>> stability with 2 x 128Mb EDO SIMMs from '1-800-4memory', likewise on
>> eBay @ same $40.Ã‚ The difference is use of Micron parts, 16 per
board:
>> MT 4LC16M4H9-5 chips.Ã‚ My CPU is not as fast, so I am clocking 25 &
>> 64Mhz.Ã‚ (Non-parity memory)Ã‚ The EDO feature of installed memory
is not
>> used by KISS-68030 circuitry, so similar results should be
obtainable
>> using FPM SIMMs.
>>
>> BTW:Ã‚ How/where are you measuring the board current?
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/09/2015 06:38 AM, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> Quick update.
>>>
>>> I am now running with two 128MB SIMMs. 16/64M jumper is now in
place, and I
>>> have switched to TEST4.BIN for testing.
>>>
>>> TEST4.BIN tests memory addresses up to 0x10000000 ie 256MB, so the
increased
>>> memory size appears to be correctly recognised. All passes, zero
errors (so
>>> far) with cache enabled.
>>>
>>> Memory was sourced for $40 plus shipping from "memorymasters" on
eBay:
>>>Ã‚ Ã‚ <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750">http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750</a>
>>> 6 days from order to receipt including US to UK shipping. Not bad!
>>>
>>> DRAMs are KM44C16104AK-6, 60ns Samsung EDO 16Mx4 DRAM, 16 chips per
SIMM.
>>>
>>> Main difference I have observed is that the peak current has
increased from
>>> approx 1.25A to 1.42A.
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
_________________________________________________________________________
>>> William R SowerbuttsÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
>>> "Carpe post meridiem"Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sowerbutts.com">http://sowerbutts.com</a>
>>>Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)
for
>>>Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?
42:32));}
>>>
>>>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
> William R SowerbuttsÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
Ã‚ <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
> "Carpe post meridiem"Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sowerbutts.com">http://sowerbutts.com</a>
>Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>
>

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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
"Carpe post meridiem<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://sowerbutts.commain(){char*s=">" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s="</a>>#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
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John Coffman

2015-09-12 06:46:23 UTC

RE: 4 port serial board

A few criteria of mine:
4 ports are identical
Need: RS232-both Terminal & Modem connections
USB by 18-pin connection or 6-pin; 6-pin may be almost what the
Bluetooth board would need

I attach a quick Kicad PCB layout; overlays are for different stuffings
of the board.
The mock-up shows, from port 0 at the bottom:
0: traditional N8 pinout using MAX232 chip (Terminal connection
requiring Null Modem cable)
1: Modem pinout, such as is available on the MF/PIC board; wires to
DB9F connector with flat crimp cable
2: USB or Bluetooth adaper; this USB adapter uses the 18-pin
connection for full modem control signals
3: RS232 with both Terminal and Modem connections made available;
both 10-pin headers are stuffed.

Oscillators used with the TL16C754BFN chip may be from 48Mhz down to
1.8432Mhz. TL16C554AFN chip could handle 16Mhz down to 1.8432Mhz.

--John

Post by Max Scane
Hi John,
A four port serial ECB card would be rather nice!
Perhaps one of the ports could have a header for a FTDI USB module?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9716
That interface seems to be fairly standard so you could also plug in a
Bluetooth module as well...
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12580
Cheers!
Max

Post by William R Sowerbutts
John
Yes, clocks at 32 and 64MHz.
I would have preferred 50ns DRAMs but could not find them in my

limited

Post by William R Sowerbutts
search. I actually made an error and bought some 50ns parts --

but on DIMMs!

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ooops, not sure I'll ever find a use for those!
Current consumption is being measured on my power supply. It's a

Rigol DP832.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Gives voltage and current at the output terminals to 1mV/1mA

resolution.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Kfp77-7VU8/maxresdefault.jpg

Somewhere, there had to be a tap into the power line.Ã Inside of the
power supply is a good place.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Before I got the DP832 I used a multimeter in current measuring

mode in

Post by William R Sowerbutts
series with the power line.
Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.
Couple of questions (these are to everyone, not just John!)
Ã - Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port

on this

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the

board. Wasn't

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play

nice with each

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã other.

Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken.Ã Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.
Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces.Ã Especially one that can generate
interrupts.Ã I have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill.Ã At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã - I have modified a version of BIOS9.ZIP from the Mini-68K

board to work on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã the KISS board. Works pretty well. I'm thinking about

adding an ELF loader

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã to that in addition to the COFF and flat binary loader, and

possibly a

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã ZMODEM send/receive utility to upload/download files from

the FAT

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã filesystem and reduce CF card swapping.Ã Before I invest a

lot of time on

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã this, is there a more obvious choice to put in ROM?

The FAT loader is a good idea.Ã I also have it running, and
posted the
work-in-progress on the Wiki.Ã I have not tried to get CP/M-68
running,
figuring the ability to load from an interchange medium was the best route.
I'm about half the way to getting the Dual SD board running withing
BIOS9.Ã With that driver, CF card swapping would be avoided, and the
existing FAT loader would be immediately usable.
BTW:Ã I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes.
Will has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.
--John

Will,
I assume you are running the clocks at 32 & 64Mhz.Ã I see similar
stability with 2 x 128Mb EDO SIMMs from '1-800-4memory',

likewise on

MT 4LC16M4H9-5 chips.Ã My CPU is not as fast, so I am clocking

25 &

64Mhz.Ã (Non-parity memory)Ã The EDO feature of installed

memory is not

used by KISS-68030 circuitry, so similar results should be

obtainable

using FPM SIMMs.
BTW:Ã How/where are you measuring the board current?
--John

Hi all
Quick update.
I am now running with two 128MB SIMMs. 16/64M jumper is now in

place, and I

have switched to TEST4.BIN for testing.
TEST4.BIN tests memory addresses up to 0x10000000 ie 256MB, so

the increased

memory size appears to be correctly recognised. All passes,

zero errors (so

far) with cache enabled.
Memory was sourced for $40 plus shipping from "memorymasters"
Ã Ã http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161432119750
6 days from order to receipt including US to UK shipping. Not bad!
DRAMs are KM44C16104AK-6, 60ns Samsung EDO 16Mx4 DRAM, 16

chips per SIMM.

Main difference I have observed is that the peak current has

increased from

approx 1.25A to 1.42A.
Will

_________________________________________________________________________

William R SowerbuttsÃ Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã
"Carpe post meridiem"Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã

Ã Ã http://sowerbutts.com

Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã main(){char*s=">#=0>
Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã

(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
_________________________________________________________________________

Post by William R Sowerbutts
William R SowerbuttsÃ Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã
"Carpe post meridiem"Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã

Ã Ã http://sowerbutts.com

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã main(){char*s=">#=0>
Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã

(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
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William R Sowerbutts

2015-09-10 10:27:02 UTC

Hi John

Post by William R Sowerbutts
Just passed 100 iterations without error in this configuration.

As a little experiment I have been running the system at a lower voltage.

I have configured the power supply for 4.18V (measured 4.126V on the KISS
card across C923, I believe most of the loss is in the cables from the power
supply to the backplane).

System appears to be completely stable at this voltage -- ran 140 passes of
TEST4.BIN overnight without error (same setup as before - 32MHz CPU, 64MHz
DRAM, 1 wait state DRAM). CPU is noticeably less warm. Have not tested the
CF card at this voltage although my guess is that it probably regulates down
to 3.3V internally so will be happy.

The board will not operate with the supply configured below 4.15V.

I don't intend to run it at such a low voltage but it was interesting to
determine a lower limit.

Post by William R Sowerbutts
- Can I add a second MF/PIC card to get a second serial port on this
machine? Obviously using a different I/O address for the board. Wasn't
obvious to me that the two interrupt controllers would play nice with
each other.

Although the MF/PIC boards can be programmed to give different responses
to "Interrupt Acknowledge", both will respond when an INTA cycle is
taken. Only one interrupt controller should be on the ECB-bus.
Once again, you are pointing out the need for a card with multiple
serial interfaces. Especially one that can generate interrupts. I have
thought that a TL16C554 (4 serial) or TL16C552 (2 serial, 1 IBM
parallel) chip would fill the bill. At least one of those serial
interfaces needs to drive a USB port using the FTDI chip (on a soldered
adapter board).

Yes, I had started thinking about exactly this: TL16C554 or preferably
TL16C754 with each serial port exposed at TTL levels on 0.1" pin headers (for
FTDI cables etc -- I would want GND, TX, RX, CTS, RTS at a minimum) as well
as sockets for MAX232/MAX202 or equivalent leading to the standard N8VEM
10-pin RS232 header. I guess you would want some jumpers for each port to
switch the inputs between the two.

I would fit a faster clock crystal to get higher baud rates (the TL16C754 can
go up to ~3Mbit/sec).

As a bodge, could I take a second MF/PIC board, omit the interrupt controller
and the 8255, and connect UART (U30) pin 33 (IRQ) to B_/IRQ5 (B16 on the DIN
connector)? Might have to run the IRQ signal via an inverter on the way. The
second UART would then signal interrupts through the NS32202 on the first
MF/PIC board. Would that work?

Post by John Coffman
BTW: I have a good third party library of FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 codes. Will
has been pushing me to support FAT32 also.

Are you using the ChaN FatFS module? I've been working on integrating that
into BIOS9 -- mainly because a future ZMODEM receive function would require
writing to the file system, but the FAT32 support and read/write/seek with
byte rather than sector addressing is also nice.

Will

_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

John Coffman

2015-09-10 14:07:45 UTC