Discussion:
[N8VEM: 17235] 386SX SBC...
p***@public.gmane.org
2014-01-26 20:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Gents,

I was looking at the lovely mini-M68k SBC and was wondering whether it's
possible to fit also a 386SX on a SBC? I'm not sure how easy is to find
today original Intel/AMD chip, or more advanced chip like ALI 6117. As of
today this CPU already qualifies like a "vintage" one, but I'm not sure
how many fans of retro-x86 are around.

Thinking more about it, that such board can be quite a challenge, as most
people would expect lots of standard peripherals to be available, so they
can run some old-school SW, and the x86 HW heritage can be quite daunting
to design/program. In addition, it was at the i386 era when boards started
to have SMD components, which can put off builders preferring through-hole
components.

Please share your opinions whether this idea is crazy or realistic.

Regards,
picmaster

-------------------------------------

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John Coffman
2014-01-27 01:28:43 UTC
Permalink
I'd say the major item holding back such a project is that the 386SX uses
a 16-bit bus. None of the other N8VEM CPU boards is in that category,
including the Mini-M68K. All operate on an 8-bit bus.

I took a look at the MC68000 series some months back and concluded
that it would be easier to use an MC68020 with the dynamic bus sizing.

Experience with the SBC-188 indicated that a lot of MSDOS software
is so dependent on the IBM/PC hardware, that a disappointing number
of DOS applications fail to run. The only OS I'd like to see on a 386
would be a terminal-oriented version of Linux.

--John
Post by p***@public.gmane.org
Gents,
I was looking at the lovely mini-M68k SBC and was wondering whether it's
possible to fit also a 386SX on a SBC? I'm not sure how easy is to find
today original Intel/AMD chip, or more advanced chip like ALI 6117. As of
today this CPU already qualifies like a "vintage" one, but I'm not sure
how many fans of retro-x86 are around.
Thinking more about it, that such board can be quite a challenge, as most
people would expect lots of standard peripherals to be available, so they
can run some old-school SW, and the x86 HW heritage can be quite daunting
to design/program. In addition, it was at the i386 era when boards started
to have SMD components, which can put off builders preferring through-hole
components.
Please share your opinions whether this idea is crazy or realistic.
Regards,
picmaster
-------------------------------------
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Andrew Bingham
2014-01-27 04:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Would it be possible to have an "MS-DOS Support Card" for the ECB bus,
similar to the S-100 card? With the RTC, PIC, timer, etc...
Post by John Coffman
I'd say the major item holding back such a project is that the 386SX uses
a 16-bit bus. None of the other N8VEM CPU boards is in that category,
including the Mini-M68K. All operate on an 8-bit bus.
I took a look at the MC68000 series some months back and concluded
that it would be easier to use an MC68020 with the dynamic bus sizing.
Experience with the SBC-188 indicated that a lot of MSDOS software
is so dependent on the IBM/PC hardware, that a disappointing number
of DOS applications fail to run. The only OS I'd like to see on a 386
would be a terminal-oriented version of Linux.
--John
Post by p***@public.gmane.org
Gents,
I was looking at the lovely mini-M68k SBC and was wondering whether it's
possible to fit also a 386SX on a SBC? I'm not sure how easy is to find
today original Intel/AMD chip, or more advanced chip like ALI 6117. As of
today this CPU already qualifies like a "vintage" one, but I'm not sure
how many fans of retro-x86 are around.
Thinking more about it, that such board can be quite a challenge, as most
people would expect lots of standard peripherals to be available, so they
can run some old-school SW, and the x86 HW heritage can be quite daunting
to design/program. In addition, it was at the i386 era when boards started
to have SMD components, which can put off builders preferring through-hole
components.
Please share your opinions whether this idea is crazy or realistic.
Regards,
picmaster
-------------------------------------
Чу лО, че СуперХПстОМг.БГ прПЎължават празМОчМата сО прПЌПцОя О през
зОЌата?
ВзеЌО СуперХПстОМг плаМ със 75% Птстъпка.
http://superhosting.bg/8years/?utm_source=Mail.BG&utm_medium=FooterLink&utm_content=FooterLink101&utm_campaign=Winter-2013
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John Coffman
2014-01-27 15:06:37 UTC
Permalink
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Number 1 incompatibility that defeats so many programs is not having
alphanumeric display memory mapped into B000:0000 to B000:FFFF.&nbsp;
This accounts for VGA, MDA, EGA, MCGA displays.<br>
<br>
The items you mention below are 80-90% handled OK by the BIOS.&nbsp; Or
use something like an 82C206 combined chip.&nbsp; This handles most
peripherals, except the VGA display.<br>
<br>
If you want to run all DOS apps, you have to have a 100% PC clone
nothing less.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/26/2014 08:22 PM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:bb9c63e0-0cd5-4aa0-a3bf-7219f32db11c-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Would it be possible to have an "MS-DOS Support
Card" for the ECB bus, similar to the S-100 card?&nbsp; With the RTC,
PIC, timer, etc...<br>
<br>
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:28:43 PM UTC-8, John Coffman
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">I'd say the major item holding back such a
project is that the 386SX uses
<div>a 16-bit bus. &nbsp;None of the other N8VEM CPU boards is in
that category,</div>
<div>including the Mini-M68K. &nbsp;All operate on an 8-bit bus.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I took a look at the MC68000 series some months back
and concluded</div>
<div>that it would be easier to use an MC68020 with the
dynamic bus sizing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Experience with the SBC-188 indicated that a lot of
MSDOS software</div>
<div>is so dependent on the IBM/PC hardware, that a
disappointing number</div>
<div>of DOS applications fail to run. &nbsp;The only OS I'd like
to see on a 386</div>
<div>would be a terminal-oriented version of Linux.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--John</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:20:09 PM UTC-8, picmaster
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Gents,
<p>I was looking at the lovely mini-M68k SBC and was
wondering whether it's<br>
possible to fit also a 386SX on a SBC? I'm not sure
how easy is to find<br>
today original Intel/AMD chip, or more advanced chip
like ALI 6117. As of<br>
today this CPU already qualifies like a "vintage" one,
but I'm not sure<br>
how many fans of retro-x86 are around.</p>
<p>Thinking more about it, that such board can be quite
a challenge, as most<br>
people would expect lots of standard peripherals to be
available, so they<br>
can run some old-school SW, and the x86 HW heritage
can be quite daunting<br>
to design/program. In addition, it was at the i386 era
when boards started<br>
to have SMD components, which can put off builders
preferring through-hole<br>
components.</p>
<p>Please share your opinions whether this idea is crazy
or realistic.</p>
<p>Regards,<br>
picmaster</p>
<p>------------------------------<wbr>-------</p>
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p***@public.gmane.org
2014-01-29 00:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Ahh, I missed this thing with the bus width. Thanks for pointing this out!

Regards,
picmaster
Post by John Coffman
I'd say the major item holding back such a project is that the 386SX uses
a 16-bit bus. None of the other N8VEM CPU boards is in that category,
including the Mini-M68K. All operate on an 8-bit bus.
I took a look at the MC68000 series some months back and concluded
that it would be easier to use an MC68020 with the dynamic bus sizing.
Experience with the SBC-188 indicated that a lot of MSDOS software
is so dependent on the IBM/PC hardware, that a disappointing number
of DOS applications fail to run. The only OS I'd like to see on a 386
would be a terminal-oriented version of Linux.
--John
-------------------------------------

Чу ли, че СуперХостинг.БГ продължават празничната си промоция и през зимата?
Вземи СуперХостинг план със 75% отстъпка.
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