[N8VEM: 15992] RE: Circuit Cellar site...

[Andrew Lynch]

Woo Hoo! Check out the new article on the N8VEM on Circuit Cellar!



http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/



Oscar has put together the N8VEM articles and has done all the work for the
publication.



Congratulations Oscar! This is wonderful!



Thank you very much! Have a nice day!



Andrew Lynch





From: Oscar Vermeulen [mailto:o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:05 PM
To: Andrew Lynch
Subject: Circuit Cellar site...



Andrew,




Wow! The N8VEM article is on their web site!



Cheers,



Oscar.
--
Oscar Vermeulen <o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org>

Altis Investment Management AG
Poststrasse 18, 6300 Zug, Switzerland
T: [phone]

www.altis.ch

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[Wayne Warthen]

This is awesome. Thanks Oscar!

Maybe time to take another run at Wikipedia? :-)

[Andrew Lynch]

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you've been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some progress
but slow and very intermittent.



Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka editors)
to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that Oscar has done?
He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work getting the Circuit
Cellar article published. That may be enough to spur them to reinstate.



Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch



From: Wayne Warthen [mailto:wwarthen-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
To: Oscar Vermeulen
Cc: Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
Subject: Re: Circuit Cellar site...



Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.



Thanks again for making it happen!



--Wayne



On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Oscar Vermeulen <o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

Wayne,



On 24/06/2013 15:52, Wayne Warthen wrote:

Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.



No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was exactly
to get justification for a Wikipedia article.

It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print Media
and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine costs 10
months. Some people develop two generations of a computer + operating system
in less time than that :)


Regards,

Oscar.

[Wayne Warthen]

I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the article
in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia wants such a
request for reinstatement to be made in this situation and is probably the
least likely to generate a defensive posture by anyone at Wikipedia.

Thanks!

Wayne

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you’ve been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some progress
but slow and very intermittent.
Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka
editors) to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that Oscar
has done? He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work getting the
Circuit Cellar article published. That may be enough to spur them to
reinstate.
Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
*To:* Oscar Vermeulen
*Cc:* Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.
Thanks again for making it happen!
--Wayne
Wayne,
Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.
No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was exactly
to get justification for a Wikipedia article.
It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print
Media and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine costs
10 months. Some people develop two generations of a computer + operating
system in less time than that :)
Regards,
Oscar.

[Wayne Warthen]

The N8VEM article is now back and active on Wikipedia. At present, it is
undisputed. The administrator completely agreed that the original deletion
was questionable and the new article was sufficient to justify
reinstatement.

It is probably VERY important that a reference to the new article be added
to the Wikipedia article ASAP.

--Wayne

Post by Wayne Warthen
I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the article
in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia wants such a
request for reinstatement to be made in this situation and is probably the
least likely to generate a defensive posture by anyone at Wikipedia.
Thanks!
Wayne

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you’ve been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some progress
but slow and very intermittent.
Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka
editors) to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that Oscar
has done? He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work getting the
Circuit Cellar article published. That may be enough to spur them to
reinstate.
Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
*To:* Oscar Vermeulen
*Cc:* Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.
Thanks again for making it happen!
--Wayne
Wayne,
Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.
No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was
exactly to get justification for a Wikipedia article.
It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print
Media and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine costs
10 months. Some people develop two generations of a computer + operating
system in less time than that :)
Regards,
Oscar.

[oscarv]

Wayne,

I'm not a Wikipedia expert,so don't really know how to add to the
article...but the references we can submit so far are

- Commodore Free Issue 67,"Homebrewing Computers in the 21st Century",
http://www.commodorefree.com/magazine/vol7/issue67.html#ARTICLE7
- Circuit Cellar July 2013, "DIY Single-Board Computers",
http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/
- Circuit Cellar August 2013, "DIY Single-Board Computers part 2" (link
forthcoming)

C't Magazin (Germany) should be publishing another article in their Autumn
Hardware Hacks special. Hopefully that satisfies the Wikimen.

Regards,

Oscar.

[Wayne Warthen]

Thanks Oscar. The information you provided is all I need. I can update
the Wiki page with it tonight. Definitely let me know as further
publications occur. It is definitely helpful to have all these references
in the Wiki page to ensure we are not deleted again!

Thanks again to you and Andrew for getting the articles published!

--Wayne

Post by Andrew Lynch
Wayne,
I'm not a Wikipedia expert,so don't really know how to add to the
article...but the references we can submit so far are
- Commodore Free Issue 67,"Homebrewing Computers in the 21st Century",
http://www.commodorefree.com/magazine/vol7/issue67.html#ARTICLE7
- Circuit Cellar July 2013, "DIY Single-Board Computers",
http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/
- Circuit Cellar August 2013, "DIY Single-Board Computers part 2"
(link forthcoming)
C't Magazin (Germany) should be publishing another article in their Autumn
Hardware Hacks special. Hopefully that satisfies the Wikimen.
Regards,
Oscar.

[Wayne Warthen]

OK, I have updated the article with the references and tried to clean up
stuff that was outdated (since the content was a year old).

I have not added the Part II of the article yet -- waiting until it is
published.

Seems like we should be in good shape now -- multiple good references.

--Wayne

[Andrew Lynch]

Great googly moogly! He's right! That's two published articles.



Wikipedia pretty much has to accept reinstatement of the page now right?
Plus the "half article" from before this should be a no brainer.



I am probably not understanding notability again. Thanks and have a nice
day!

Andrew Lynch



From: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
oscarv
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:50 PM
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Cc: 'Wayne Warthen'; 'Oscar Vermeulen'; 'Tothwolf'; cctalk-M27W7+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [N8VEM: 16041] Re: Circuit Cellar site...



Wayne,

I'm not a Wikipedia expert,so don't really know how to add to the
article...but the references we can submit so far are

* Commodore Free Issue 67,"Homebrewing Computers in the 21st Century",
http://www.commodorefree.com/magazine/vol7/issue67.html#ARTICLE7
* Circuit Cellar July 2013, "DIY Single-Board
Computers",http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/
* Circuit Cellar August 2013, "DIY Single-Board Computers part 2"
(link forthcoming)

C't Magazin (Germany) should be publishing another article in their Autumn
Hardware Hacks special. Hopefully that satisfies the Wikimen.

Regards,

Oscar.
--
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[Andrew Lynch]

Woo Hoo! Success! Free at last!



A huge "THANK YOU" to the Wikipedia recovery team and especially Oscar for
the lifesaving articles on N8VEM!



Congratulations! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Andrew Lynch





From: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Wayne Warthen
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:06 PM
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Cc: 'Wayne Warthen'; 'Oscar Vermeulen'; 'Tothwolf'; cctalk-M27W7+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [N8VEM: 16040] Re: Circuit Cellar site...



The N8VEM article is now back and active on Wikipedia. At present, it is
undisputed. The administrator completely agreed that the original deletion
was questionable and the new article was sufficient to justify
reinstatement.



It is probably VERY important that a reference to the new article be added
to the Wikipedia article ASAP.



--Wayne

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:17:03 AM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:

I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the article
in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia wants such a
request for reinstatement to be made in this situation and is probably the
least likely to generate a defensive posture by anyone at Wikipedia.



Thanks!



Wayne

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:52:10 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you've been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some progress
but slow and very intermittent.



Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka editors)
to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that Oscar has done?
He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work getting the Circuit
Cellar article published. That may be enough to spur them to reinstate.



Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch



From: Wayne Warthen [mailto:wwar...-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
To: Oscar Vermeulen
Cc: Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
Subject: Re: Circuit Cellar site...



Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.



Thanks again for making it happen!



--Wayne



On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Oscar Vermeulen <o.ver...-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Wayne,



On 24/06/2013 15:52, Wayne Warthen wrote:

Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.



No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was exactly
to get justification for a Wikipedia article.

It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print Media
and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine costs 10
months. Some people develop two generations of a computer + operating system
in less time than that :)


Regards,

Oscar.
--
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[Wayne Warthen]

That intro needs to be trimmed down, it's supposed to be a summary of the
body. Instead it looks like the summary is the body itself.

Yes, the Wikipedia article could use a lot of work. Much of it is still
out of date. I only took what was in existence previously and did a
minimal update to try and keep it from being proposed for deletion again.
I would encourage everyone to contribute directly to improving the article
-- that is what Wikipedia is all about!

--Wayne

[Tothwolf]

Well, as I said before, generally the least controversial way to go about
this would be to make a request at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion (WP:REFUND)
to have the previously deleted article userfied. From there, it could be
edited and expanded to include new references and material.

The two main things that will need to be addressed are the material's
compliance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy and notability guideline.
I would /highly/ recommend you have at least /two/ printed, published
sources to help deal with the notability guideline. While in theory only
one might be needed, I can tell you from experience that unless you have
at least two, people will again argue for deletion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:V)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability (WP:N)

Post by Wayne Warthen
I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the
article in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia
wants such a request for reinstatement to be made in this situation and
is probably the least likely to generate a defensive posture by anyone
at Wikipedia.
Thanks!
Wayne

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you’ve been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some
progress but slow and very intermittent.
Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka
editors) to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that
Oscar has done? He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work
getting the Circuit Cellar article published. That may be enough to
spur them to reinstate.
Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
*To:* Oscar Vermeulen
*Cc:* Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.
Thanks again for making it happen!
--Wayne
Wayne,
Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.
No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was
exactly to get justification for a Wikipedia article.
It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print
Media and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine
costs 10 months. Some people develop two generations of a computer +
operating system in less time than that :)
Regards,
Oscar.

[Andrew Lynch]

That's a great point. Maybe we should hold until the second article is
published? They were sort of giving us credit for one of the online
articles from before. I'd rather not push our luck again though. I'd hate
to go through that argument again when a second article makes it a "slam
dunk". Let's follow the process as best we can. No point in aggravating
them!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tothwolf
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:52 AM
Cc: Wayne Warthen; 'Oscar Vermeulen'
Subject: [N8VEM: 16042] Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Well, as I said before, generally the least controversial way to go about

this

would be to make a request at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion
(WP:REFUND) to have the previously deleted article userfied. From there,

it

could be edited and expanded to include new references and material.
The two main things that will need to be addressed are the material's
compliance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy and notability guideline.
I would /highly/ recommend you have at least /two/ printed, published
sources to help deal with the notability guideline. While in theory only

one

might be needed, I can tell you from experience that unless you have at

least

two, people will again argue for deletion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:V)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability (WP:N)

Post by Wayne Warthen
I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the
article in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia
wants such a request for reinstatement to be made in this situation
and is probably the least likely to generate a defensive posture by
anyone at Wikipedia.
Thanks!
Wayne

Post by Andrew Lynch
Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you've been doing in
my partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some
progress but slow and very intermittent.
Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka
editors) to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that
Oscar has done? He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work
getting the Circuit Cellar article published. That may be enough to
spur them to reinstate.
Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
*To:* Oscar Vermeulen
*Cc:* Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.
Thanks again for making it happen!
--Wayne
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Oscar Vermeulen
Wayne,
Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.
No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was
exactly to get justification for a Wikipedia article.
It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print
Media and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine
costs 10 months. Some people develop two generations of a computer +
operating system in less time than that :)
Regards,
Oscar.

--
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[Max Scane]

Well I just had a look and the page is back. Well done guys!!

Max

Post by Andrew Lynch
That's a great point. Maybe we should hold until the second article is
published? They were sort of giving us credit for one of the online
articles from before. I'd rather not push our luck again though. I'd hate
to go through that argument again when a second article makes it a "slam
dunk". Let's follow the process as best we can. No point in aggravating
them!
Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tothwolf
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:52 AM
Cc: Wayne Warthen; 'Oscar Vermeulen'
Subject: [N8VEM: 16042] Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Well, as I said before, generally the least controversial way to go about

this

would be to make a request at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion
(WP:REFUND) to have the previously deleted article userfied. From there,

it

could be edited and expanded to include new references and material.
The two main things that will need to be addressed are the material's
compliance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy and notability

guideline.

I would /highly/ recommend you have at least /two/ printed, published
sources to help deal with the notability guideline. While in theory only

one

might be needed, I can tell you from experience that unless you have at

least

two, people will again argue for deletion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability (WP:V)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability (WP:N)

Post by Wayne Warthen
I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the
article in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia
wants such a request for reinstatement to be made in this situation
and is probably the least likely to generate a defensive posture by
anyone at Wikipedia.
Thanks!
Wayne

Post by Andrew Lynch
Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you've been doing in
my partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some
progress but slow and very intermittent.
Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka
editors) to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that
Oscar has done? He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work
getting the Circuit Cellar article published. That may be enough to
spur them to reinstate.
Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
*To:* Oscar Vermeulen
*Cc:* Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Re: Circuit Cellar site...
Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.
Thanks again for making it happen!
--Wayne
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Oscar Vermeulen
Wayne,
Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.
No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was
exactly to get justification for a Wikipedia article.
It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print
Media and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine
costs 10 months. Some people develop two generations of a computer +
operating system in less time than that :)
Regards,
Oscar.

--
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[Andrew Lynch]

Thanks Wayne! That's probably for the best. Let's see if we can get the
Wikipedia page reviewed again in light of the new articles. I am probably
not the right choice since last time I was pulling my hair out in
frustration and I may be prone to arguing with the refs. That's no way to
get them to see it our side!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch



From: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Wayne Warthen
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:17 AM
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Cc: 'Wayne Warthen'; 'Oscar Vermeulen'; 'Tothwolf'; cctalk-M27W7+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [N8VEM: 16039] Re: Circuit Cellar site...



I left a message for the administrator that ultimately deleted the article
in June of 2012. This appears to be the way that Wikipedia wants such a
request for reinstatement to be made in this situation and is probably the
least likely to generate a defensive posture by anyone at Wikipedia.



Thanks!



Wayne

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:52:10 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:

Hi! Thanks to everyone for all the great work you've been doing in my
partial absence. Still trying to sort things out and making some progress
but slow and very intermittent.



Would someone please take another whack at the Wikipedia Gods (aka editors)
to reinstate the N8VEM article based on the great work that Oscar has done?
He has singled-handedly done a huge amount of work getting the Circuit
Cellar article published. That may be enough to spur them to reinstate.



Always open for discussion and new ideas. Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch



From: Wayne Warthen [mailto:wwar...-***@public.gmane.org <javascript:> ]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:01 AM
To: Oscar Vermeulen
Cc: Tothwolf; Andrew Lynch
Subject: Re: Circuit Cellar site...



Indeed. Regardless, great to see this progress.



Thanks again for making it happen!



--Wayne



On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Oscar Vermeulen <o.ver...-***@public.gmane.org
<javascript:> > wrote:

Wayne,



On 24/06/2013 15:52, Wayne Warthen wrote:

Makes sense. Sorry if I caused any grief by bringing this up.



No, not at all - the idea of getting these articles published was exactly
to get justification for a Wikipedia article.

It's also a nice demonstration about the difference between Old Print Media
and the internet age... getting the darn thing in the magazine costs 10
months. Some people develop two generations of a computer + operating system
in less time than that :)


Regards,

Oscar.
--
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[vk5dg]

Hi Guys,

Just downloaded my copy of Circuit Cellar for July and read the article.
Well done Oscar and Andrew. Looking forward to part 2.

Regards

David

Post by Andrew Lynch
Woo Hoo! Check out the new article on the N8VEM on Circuit Cellar!
http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/
Oscar has put together the N8VEM articles and has done all the work for
the publication.
Congratulations Oscar! This is wonderful!
Thank you very much! Have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
*Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 4:05 PM
*To:* Andrew Lynch
*Subject:* Circuit Cellar site...
Andrew,
Wow! The N8VEM article is on their web site!
Cheers,
Oscar.
--
Altis Investment Management AG
Poststrasse 18, 6300 Zug, Switzerland
T: [phone]
www.altis.ch
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the individual or entity named herein. If you are not the herein named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or otherwise make
use of this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you
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[Bob Grieb]

Hi,

    Just got my copy of Circuit Cellar and read the first article about N8VEM.
About time all the development work that's been done by all of you got some
well-deserved press and visibility.  Nice article too.

   Bob Grieb




________________________________
From: Andrew Lynch <LYNCHAJ-***@public.gmane.org>
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Cc: 'Oscar Vermeulen' <o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org>; cctalk-M27W7+***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:49 AM
Subject: [N8VEM: 15992] RE: Circuit Cellar site...



Woo Hoo!  Check out the new article on the N8VEM on Circuit Cellar!
 
http://circuitcellar.com/featured/diy-single-board-computers/
 
Oscar has put together the N8VEM articles and has done all the work for the publication. 
 
Congratulations Oscar!  This is wonderful!
 
Thank you very much!  Have a nice day!
 
Andrew Lynch
 
 
From:Oscar Vermeulen [mailto:o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:05 PM
To: Andrew Lynch
Subject: Circuit Cellar site...
 
Andrew,

 
Wow! The N8VEM article is on their web site!
 
Cheers,
 
Oscar.
 
--
Oscar Vermeulen <o.vermeulen-***@public.gmane.org>

Altis Investment Management AG
Poststrasse 18, 6300 Zug, Switzerland
T: [phone]

www.altis.ch
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