[N8VEM: 20278] Rename Group and Reassign Ownership

[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Folks,

I am very concerned that we are headed down a path of deleting the N8VEM
Google Group when it is not necessary.

A Google Group can be renamed and ownership reassigned very easily.

@Andrew, would you be willing to make me an "owner" role for the N8VEM
group (there can be multiple owners) with my promise to rename the group to
disassociate it with your call sign? The renaming would be done as soon as
there was a little time to notify all members.

This approach will allow the many years of valuable messages to be
retained. Additional owners can be established to ensure that the group
can live indefinitely.

Thanks,

Wayne

[Fabio Battaglia]

I too hope this group can survive under another name...

Fabio B.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Folks,
I am very concerned that we are headed down a path of deleting the N8VEM
Google Group when it is not necessary.
A Google Group can be renamed and ownership reassigned very easily.
@Andrew, would you be willing to make me an "owner" role for the N8VEM
group (there can be multiple owners) with my promise to rename the group to
disassociate it with your call sign? The renaming would be done as soon as
there was a little time to notify all members.
This approach will allow the many years of valuable messages to be
retained. Additional owners can be established to ensure that the group
can live indefinitely.
Thanks,
Wayne
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[Ken Worster]

I also would greatly appreciate the renaming of this group. Having an
archive of messages to search is hugely important to a project like this.

Post by Fabio Battaglia
I too hope this group can survive under another name...
Fabio B.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Folks,
I am very concerned that we are headed down a path of deleting the N8VEM
Google Group when it is not necessary.
A Google Group can be renamed and ownership reassigned very easily.
@Andrew, would you be willing to make me an "owner" role for the N8VEM
group (there can be multiple owners) with my promise to rename the group to
disassociate it with your call sign? The renaming would be done as soon as
there was a little time to notify all members.
This approach will allow the many years of valuable messages to be
retained. Additional owners can be established to ensure that the group
can live indefinitely.
Thanks,
Wayne
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[Orville Jones]

I call for a vote!
Please rename group and lets move on.
You have my support Wayne.

Al, N8WQ

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:49:28 -0700
From: ***@gmail.com
To: ***@googlegroups.com
CC: ***@yahoo.com
Subject: [N8VEM: 20278] Rename Group and Reassign Ownership

Hi Folks,
I am very concerned that we are headed down a path of deleting the N8VEM Google Group when it is not necessary.
A Google Group can be renamed and ownership reassigned very easily.
@Andrew, would you be willing to make me an "owner" role for the N8VEM group (there can be multiple owners) with my promise to rename the group to disassociate it with your call sign? The renaming would be done as soon as there was a little time to notify all members.
This approach will allow the many years of valuable messages to be retained. Additional owners can be established to ensure that the group can live indefinitely.
Thanks,
Wayne
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[James Cross]

As someone just getting started tinkering with some of these boards, losing
this archive would be a bit of a nightmare. I really hope that it can just
be renamed.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Folks,
I am very concerned that we are headed down a path of deleting the N8VEM
Google Group when it is not necessary.
A Google Group can be renamed and ownership reassigned very easily.
@Andrew, would you be willing to make me an "owner" role for the N8VEM
group (there can be multiple owners) with my promise to rename the group to
disassociate it with your call sign? The renaming would be done as soon as
there was a little time to notify all members.
This approach will allow the many years of valuable messages to be
retained. Additional owners can be established to ensure that the group
can live indefinitely.
Thanks,
Wayne

[Ants Pants]

Hey guys, could anyone just explain (quickly) if anyone is taking care of
taking an image of the wiki site - ifso who?

-are we going to open a new (named) wiki page - ifso who is in charge of
this?
- if were are having a new site - where will it be and what will be the
name? if its decided yet? --> im assuming a wiki would be on this site?

also it seems (FYI for anyone who isnt aware) like a new google group has
been created to direct any traffic to in this time of transition (and in
future s100 related talk) S100Computers ..

thanks all

[Ewout Ros]

Hi all,

As Andrew said in the N8VEM wiki shutdown notice topic, he will make a
final image back up before he deletes the wiki on 31 Oct.

Concering a (personal) site backup, I'm trying to scrape as much as I can
from the wiki with wget before it goes down. The problem with the wiki is
that wget can only mirror files which are referenced from plain html/php
pages and not from javacript based links suchs as the wiki directory/files
viewer. Most files are not referenced from any html/php page which means I
need to manually copy all the file links from the directory/file viewer
into a batch text file, which wget can use to download the files.Wget
generates a folder structure mirroring the original file locations on the
wiki server, which are a bit cryptic but will ensure that the different
project files are stored together folder wise.

I'm also interested in the status about an possible replacement wiki.
For now I'm willing to set up a public (read only) backup site to at least
keep the files online for everyone.

Regards,
Ewout

[Ants Pants]

Hi Ewout, thanks for getting that off.. at least there will have a copy of
the Wiki.. i look forward to peoples opinions of the use of a wiki backup

also i know this has been discussed.. but all the threads from the google
group... i dont suppose anyone has managed to get these? i seem to remember
talk of it, and it being a large pain ..

Along with a Wiki site to provide file'd information to the projects, i
know we are using google groups now as a means of interaction and thread
creating.. has the idea of a forum with suitable name ever been taked
about? a forum would atleast let us categorize boards into subforums and
topics on one specific board.. that way it would be allot easier to not
have to sift through months of messages to find he status of a board you
are interested. just a thought?

so maby we could have a site (Wiki) dedicated to hosting the files on a
board(s) and the point of contact for each board/project - A forum to
discuss the boards/projects in a sorted mannar? and then the backup of the
current history and work of the club could be intertwined in there .. if
this has not been pointed before please tell.

[Martin Heermance]

I'm hoping this group can be renamed as I also just got started tinkering with these boards and often search for old topics.

[Andrew Bingham]

The contents of the existing Google group will be archived and made
available so people can find old threads on boards they are interested in.
That's all taken care of.

As far as what happens to this Google Group specifically, that's up to
Andrew Lynch. However I believe he has already given this topic some
thought before deciding what to do. I'd suggest we respect that decision
based on the work he put into the board designs that laid the foundation
for all of this.

Alan H. had started a Wordpress site, and I think he registered a domain
name, but I haven't heard from him in a while.

Andrew Bingham

Post by Martin Heermance
I'm hoping this group can be renamed as I also just got started tinkering
with these boards and often search for old topics.

[Alan Cox]

For the group it does strike me as silly because everyone who can't
find the now vanished group will either give up or mail Andrew asking
where it has all gone.

Renaming would definitely be smarter

For some of the other stuff github is now offering large file handling

https://github.com/blog/2069-git-large-file-storage-v1-0

so a lot of the problems with keeping some of the board layouts and
the like have gone away.

Alan

[Ken Worster]

Uploading to a Git repository sounds ideal to me for the wiki stuff. I
also agree with Alan - eliminating the sources of information will only
increase the unwanted communications Andrew receives.

Post by Alan Cox
For the group it does strike me as silly because everyone who can't
find the now vanished group will either give up or mail Andrew asking
where it has all gone.
Renaming would definitely be smarter
For some of the other stuff github is now offering large file handling
https://github.com/blog/2069-git-large-file-storage-v1-0
so a lot of the problems with keeping some of the board layouts and
the like have gone away.
Alan
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[Andrew Bingham]

Git is a terrible way to handle large amount of binary data. There is 5GB
of data in the wiki. Kicad data, etc is all binary data. The new git
"large hosting" service depends on hosting the binary files off on some
other server like Github.com and not within the repository. Github has a
history of changing their minds constantly about what to do with large
files, randomly deciding people were using too much binary data, and
generally changing their rules whenever they feel like it. Also once
something goes into a git repository, it's pretty much impossible to
permanently remove that file - over on the Vintage Computer Forums someone
uploaded a C64 disk image with another members personal information (old
financial stuff from the 80s) by mistake, and with no permanent way to get
rid of it, they ended up taking down the whole repository permanently.

If I don't hear anything back from Alan H. this weekend about the domain he
registered and his plans I will go ahead and pick another domain and set up
a Docuwiki hosted site for us. We can put the archive of the existing wiki
into a folder structure and link the file lists for each board to new pages
for each board as we populate the new wiki. There is a plugin to make a
nice file list at the bottom of a page that points to a directory on your
server, we point that to the archived folder of files for each board, and
away we go.

I don't see any reason to have more than a wiki that uses flat-file data
storage (no database to deal with) and maybe an FTP people can browse.
It's been a huge pain in the ass getting the data out of the walled
gardens of Google Groups and PBWiki and if we keep it in a simple format in
the future it will be easy to backup/mirror/etc. There is a tendency on
"Web 2.0" to make everything way more complicated than it needs to be, and
if I'm going to put in the time to maintain something, I'm not going to
make that mistake.

Post by Ken Worster
Uploading to a Git repository sounds ideal to me for the wiki stuff. I
also agree with Alan - eliminating the sources of information will only
increase the unwanted communications Andrew receives.

Post by Alan Cox
For the group it does strike me as silly because everyone who can't
find the now vanished group will either give up or mail Andrew asking
where it has all gone.
Renaming would definitely be smarter
For some of the other stuff github is now offering large file handling
https://github.com/blog/2069-git-large-file-storage-v1-0
so a lot of the problems with keeping some of the board layouts and
the like have gone away.
Alan
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.
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[Nikolay Dimitrov]

Hi all,

I don't remember whether I've already proposed this, but I still own
the domain retrohub.org, and it would be an honor for me to help
DNS hosting the N8VEM project. We can name the new web-site to
something like this:

sbc.retrohub.org, or
boards.retrohub.org, or
projects.retrohub.org, or something else...

...and I can configure a DNS record or HTTP-redirect to Alan's server,
sticking to the original plan (Alan to host the new wiki).

I would be more than happy to help with this, and it would cost next to
nothing to me.

Kind regards,
Nikolay

[Nikolay Dimitrov]

Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Bingham
Git is a terrible way to handle large amount of binary data. There is

I mostly agree, git is great at source code but never intended to shine
with binaries.

Post by Andrew Bingham
5GB of data in the wiki. Kicad data, etc is all binary data. The new
git "large hosting" service depends on hosting the binary files off on
some other server like Github.com and not within the repository. Github
has a history of changing their minds constantly about what to do with
large files, randomly deciding people were using too much binary data,
and generally changing their rules whenever they feel like it. Also

I agree. That's why I thought that we (the community) have the
resources to host the design files ourselves, thus making the decisions.

Post by Andrew Bingham
once something goes into a git repository, it's pretty much impossible
to permanently remove that file - over on the Vintage Computer Forums
someone uploaded a C64 disk image with another members personal
information (old financial stuff from the 80s) by mistake, and with no
permanent way to get rid of it, they ended up taking down the whole
repository permanently.

There's a way to remove a file from git history - the commit which
introduced the file can be changed, but this will change the checksums
of all child commits in the git tree. Technically this is not cool
thing to do when others are tracking your tree, but it's entirely
possible.

Post by Andrew Bingham
If I don't hear anything back from Alan H. this weekend about the domain
he registered and his plans I will go ahead and pick another domain and
set up a Docuwiki hosted site for us. We can put the archive of the
existing wiki into a folder structure and link the file lists for each
board to new pages for each board as we populate the new wiki. There is
a plugin to make a nice file list at the bottom of a page that points to
a directory on your server, we point that to the archived folder of
files for each board, and away we go.

Please see my email regarding retrohub.org - if you (and others, of
course) like this domain name, please consider using it for the SBC
projects. I would be happy to help.

Post by Andrew Bingham
I don't see any reason to have more than a wiki that uses flat-file data
storage (no database to deal with) and maybe an FTP people can browse.
It's been a huge pain in the ass getting the data out of the walled
gardens of Google Groups and PBWiki and if we keep it in a simple format
in the future it will be easy to backup/mirror/etc. There is a tendency
on "Web 2.0" to make everything way more complicated than it needs to
be, and if I'm going to put in the time to maintain something, I'm not
going to make that mistake.

Well, that's entirely correct. And if we can keep a track of the old
versions of the schematics/pcbs, that would be perfect. But most
important thing is, to go away from proprietary/complex solutions, as
you pointed out.

Regards,
Nikolay

[Wayne Warthen]

Glad to hear you are doing this.

My primary concern was just ensuring the information is not lost, so it
sounds like that is covered.

Thanks,

Wayne

Post by Andrew Bingham
The contents of the existing Google group will be archived and made
available so people can find old threads on boards they are interested in.
That's all taken care of.
As far as what happens to this Google Group specifically, that's up to
Andrew Lynch. However I believe he has already given this topic some
thought before deciding what to do. I'd suggest we respect that decision
based on the work he put into the board designs that laid the foundation
for all of this.
Alan H. had started a Wordpress site, and I think he registered a domain
name, but I haven't heard from him in a while.
Andrew Bingham

Post by Martin Heermance
I'm hoping this group can be renamed as I also just got started tinkering
with these boards and often search for old topics.

[Tregare]

it's been nice getting to know y'all.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Glad to hear you are doing this.
My primary concern was just ensuring the information is not lost, so it
sounds like that is covered.
Thanks,
Wayne

Post by Andrew Bingham
The contents of the existing Google group will be archived and made
available so people can find old threads on boards they are interested in.
That's all taken care of.
As far as what happens to this Google Group specifically, that's up to
Andrew Lynch. However I believe he has already given this topic some
thought before deciding what to do. I'd suggest we respect that decision
based on the work he put into the board designs that laid the foundation
for all of this.
Alan H. had started a Wordpress site, and I think he registered a domain
name, but I haven't heard from him in a while.
Andrew Bingham

Post by Martin Heermance
I'm hoping this group can be renamed as I also just got started
tinkering with these boards and often search for old topics.

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