Discussion:
[N8VEM: 18795] Re: Kicad router
oscarv
2014-10-07 09:25:58 UTC
Permalink
John,

I just run freerouting locally from the sources you mentioned. It works
fine out of the Netbeans IDE. Here is a download link to my project
directory with all settings etc:
freerouter Netbeans project
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_jM3_1AFMbMcS05dm9JZC1kNGM/view?usp=sharing>

Reards,

Oscar.
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Alan Cox
2014-10-07 09:46:38 UTC
Permalink
In both cases it would depend upon which java engine you used to run it and
what CPU.

The java from folks like IBM is definitely not an interpreter but a JIT as
on Windows.

Gcj is a true compiler and while I've not tried the router it builds and
runs other big apps like JMRI.

The usual Java on Fedora is the one from the Sun open sourced release. It
John Coffman
2014-10-07 19:47:33 UTC
Permalink
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On 10/07/2014 02:46 AM, Alan Cox wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK9X0+t83pOnk256Aj5PE5pRQCwv6fx2VG9FVPMG8odhD+bxtA-JsoAwUIsXosN+***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">In both cases it would depend upon which java engine
you used to run it and what CPU. </p>
<p dir="ltr">The java from folks like IBM is definitely not an
interpreter but a JIT as on Windows.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Gcj is a true compiler and while I've not tried the
router it builds and runs other big apps like JMRI.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The usual Java on Fedora is the one from the Sun open
sourced release. It is also a jit but lacks some performance
features in the proprietary one.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
The Fedora version is incredibly&nbsp; s l&nbsp; o&nbsp; o&nbsp; o&nbsp;&nbsp; w&nbsp;&nbsp; w&nbsp;&nbsp; w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; w.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK9X0+t83pOnk256Aj5PE5pRQCwv6fx2VG9FVPMG8odhD+bxtA-JsoAwUIsXosN+***@public.gmane.org"
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<p dir="ltr">
</p>
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yoda
2014-10-07 20:17:14 UTC
Permalink
John

You might try to get the linux java from IBM or from Oracle - they are
about the fastest out there.

Dave
Post by Alan Cox
In both cases it would depend upon which java engine you used to run it
and what CPU.
The java from folks like IBM is definitely not an interpreter but a JIT as
on Windows.
Gcj is a true compiler and while I've not tried the router it builds and
runs other big apps like JMRI.
The usual Java on Fedora is the one from the Sun open sourced release. It
is also a jit but lacks some performance features in the proprietary one.
The Fedora version is incredibly s l o o o w w w w.
--John
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oscarv
2014-10-07 11:18:09 UTC
Permalink
It would be great if someone with Java know-how can compile it to be a
simple stand-alone program. I am somewhat averse to Java, so I could not
figure out how to do that. But in the mean time, it runs fine out of
Netbeans this way.

Regards,

Oscar.
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John Coffman
2014-10-07 19:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Oscar,

I have heard of the Netbeans approach. I guess that is the first thing
to try. Perhaps the Windows version of JAVA compiles to machine code,
whereas the Linux versions compiles to bytecode, which is then run
through an interpreter. The machine code version is very important to
have, since my experience with the SBC-188 -- the hardest board to
route. Machine code optimization runs in about 3 weeks (on a 3.5Ghz
quad processor), so I would expect the interpreted version to take 6
months or more. Completely intolerable.
Post by oscarv
John,
I just run freerouting locally from the sources you mentioned. It
works fine out of the Netbeans IDE. Here is a download link to my
freerouter Netbeans project
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_jM3_1AFMbMcS05dm9JZC1kNGM/view?usp=sharing>
It would be great if someone with Java know-how can compile it to be a
simple stand-alone program. I am somewhat averse to Java,
Post by oscarv
so I could not figure out how to do that. But in the mean time, it
runs fine out of Netbeans this way.

Exactly my predicament, also.

--John
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Kip Koon
2014-10-07 20:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Hi John!

WOW! 3 weeks to route a 6U PCB? Ouch! My windows machines won't stay
running that long without rebooting for who knows what reason! Other than
that though, I like the Windows platform. It works well for me, until I
need to compile programs, then I go to cygwin for that. :) Take care my
friend!



Kip Koon

computerdoc-***@public.gmane.org

http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

http://computerpcdoc.com/



From: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
John Coffman
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 3:45 PM
To: oscarv
Cc: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org; n8vem-s100-/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [N8VEM: 18801] Re: Kicad router



Oscar,

I have heard of the Netbeans approach. I guess that is the first thing to
try. Perhaps the Windows version of JAVA compiles to machine code, whereas
the Linux versions compiles to bytecode, which is then run through an
interpreter. The machine code version is very important to have, since my
experience with the SBC-188 -- the hardest board to route. Machine code
optimization runs in about 3 weeks (on a 3.5Ghz quad processor), so I would
expect the interpreted version to take 6 months or more. Completely
intolerable.


On 10/07/2014 02:25 AM, oscarv wrote:

John,

I just run freerouting locally from the sources you mentioned. It works fine
out of the Netbeans IDE. Here is a download link to my project directory
with all settings etc:
freerouter Netbeans project
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_jM3_1AFMbMcS05dm9JZC1kNGM/view?usp=shari
ng>
Post by oscarv
It would be great if someone with Java know-how can compile it to be a
simple stand-alone program. I am somewhat averse to Java,
Post by oscarv
so I could not figure out how to do that. But in the mean time, it runs
fine out of Netbeans this way.

Exactly my predicament, also.

--John
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John Coffman
2014-10-07 22:06:49 UTC
Permalink
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Correction:&nbsp; 3U&nbsp; (160mm x 100mm)<br>
<br>
That is routing (2 hrs), and long, long optimization with
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://freerouting.net">http://freerouting.net</a>.<br>
<br>
Oscar pointed me at his Netbeans project, which I can run at
full-speed under Windows.&nbsp; As I write this, I'm trying to get the
Netbeans Linux version up to test its speed.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/07/2014 01:32 PM, Kip Koon wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:00c901cfe26d$c907fbd0$5b17f370$@sc.rr.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Hi John!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">WOW!&nbsp; 3 weeks to route a 6U PCB?&nbsp; Ouch!&nbsp; My
windows machines won&#8217;t stay running that long without
rebooting for who knows what reason!&nbsp; Other than that
though, I like the Windows platform.&nbsp; It works well for me,
until I need to compile programs, then I go to cygwin for
that.&nbsp; :)&nbsp; Take &nbsp;care my friend!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Kip Koon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://computerpcdoc.com/">http://computerpcdoc.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
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73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
windowtext;"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org">n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org">mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Coffman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 07, 2014 3:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> oscarv<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org">n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:n8vem-s100-/***@public.gmane.org">n8vem-s100-/***@public.gmane.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [N8VEM: 18801] Re: Kicad router<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oscar,<br>
<br>
I have heard of the Netbeans approach.&nbsp; I guess that is the
first thing to try.&nbsp; Perhaps the Windows version of JAVA
compiles to machine code, whereas the Linux versions compiles
to bytecode, which is then run through an interpreter.&nbsp; The
machine code version is very important to have, since my
experience with the SBC-188 -- the hardest board to route.&nbsp;
Machine code optimization runs in about 3 weeks (on a 3.5Ghz
quad processor), so I would expect the interpreted version to
take 6 months or more.&nbsp; Completely intolerable.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/07/2014 02:25 AM, oscarv wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">John,<br>
<br>
I just run freerouting locally from the sources you
mentioned. It works fine out of the Netbeans IDE. Here is a
download link to my project directory with all settings etc:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_jM3_1AFMbMcS05dm9JZC1kNGM/view?usp=sharing">freerouter
Netbeans project</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
&gt; It would be great if someone with Java know-how can
compile it to be a simple stand-alone program. I am somewhat
averse to Java,<br>
&gt; so I could not figure out how to do that. But in the mean
time, it runs fine out of Netbeans this way.<br>
<br>
Exactly my predicament, also.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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oscarv
2014-10-07 23:28:24 UTC
Permalink
John,

There's a couple of orders of magnitude, challenge-wise, between us. My
KIM-1 clone PCB took 90 seconds to route...

Regards,

Oscar
John Coffman
2014-10-08 14:12:40 UTC
Permalink
Oscar,

Similarly, the simple ECB Dual SD board routes in 00:01:15 (75 seconds);
then it takes a only an hour or two to optimize.

--John
Post by oscarv
John,
There's a couple of orders of magnitude, challenge-wise, between us.
My KIM-1 clone PCB took 90 seconds to route...
Regards,
Oscar
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