Discussion:
[N8VEM: 15916] custom rom for hazeltine terminal
brizza
2013-05-24 11:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the
keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all
worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud
rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal
types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i
could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest
setting for this terminal.
Nik

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John Coffman
2013-05-24 15:27:25 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
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<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Nik,<br>
<br>
One trouble I had with a Wyse terminal was that it needed ALL the
RS-232 signals before it would operate.&nbsp; It is possible that the
Hazeltine terminal will not send keyboard characters unless one of
the RS-232 signals in asserted.<br>
<br>
My solution was to create a special cable for the Wyse terminal with
DTR (DSR after going through a null modem) to (CD).&nbsp; The signal
voltage drops, but it is still within RS-232 limits, and the
terminal started responding.<br>
<br>
I also short RTS to CTS at the terminal connector.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/24/2013 04:01 AM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:27baf2ac-2345-4a34-84c2-e56a048226b9-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi,
<div>i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5,
but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since
previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only
changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy
drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and
WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try.
The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest
setting for this terminal.</div>
<div>Nik</div>
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brizza
2013-05-25 00:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
Thanks. I'll make up another cable and see how it goes.
Regards,
Nik

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:27:25 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>
> Nik,
>
> One trouble I had with a Wyse terminal was that it needed ALL the RS-232
> signals before it would operate. It is possible that the Hazeltine
> terminal will not send keyboard characters unless one of the RS-232 signals
> in asserted.
>
> My solution was to create a special cable for the Wyse terminal with DTR
> (DSR after going through a null modem) to (CD). The signal voltage drops,
> but it is still within RS-232 limits, and the terminal started responding.
>
> I also short RTS to CTS at the terminal connector.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/24/2013 04:01 AM, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi,
> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the
> keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all
> worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud
> rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal
> types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i
> could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest
> setting for this terminal.
> Nik
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>
>
>
>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-24 16:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are using?

Thanks,

Wayne
brizza
2013-05-25 00:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
Thanks. Here is the config file.
Nik


On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are using?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-25 04:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all worked
fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM code is
indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter depending on
your hardware configuration).

I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit confused.
I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.

I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen when
you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you type
on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?

If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.

I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?

Thanks,

Wayne

On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> Thanks. Here is the config file.
> Nik
>
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are using?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>

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brizza
2013-05-25 04:45:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom bios
and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
Thanks,
Nik

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all worked
> fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM code is
> indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter depending on
> your hardware configuration).
>
> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit confused.
> I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>
> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>
> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
> type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
> all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>
> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wayne,
>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>> Nik
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Nik,
>>>
>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>> using?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-25 05:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Yikes, it sure sounds like I have done something to break things in your
setup.

Do you get the boot messages like the ones I have listed below? Do yours
look any different? I assume you get stuck at the BOOT prompt, right?

Thanks,

Wayne

Boot....

N8VEM Z80 @ 8MHz ROM=512KB RAM=512KB
UART0: IO=0x68 BAUD=9600
FD: IO=0x36 UNITS=2
PPIDE: IO=0x20 UNITS=2

N8VEM HBIOS v2.5 - Beta 7 (RomWBW-WWarthen-130524T0926)

A=RAM B=ROM C=FD0 D=FD1 E=PPIDE0-00 F=PPIDE0-01 G=PPIDE0-02 H=PPIDE0-03
Boot: (M)onitor, (R)OM, or Drive Letter ===>



On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:45:12 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom bios
> and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
> Thanks,
> Nik
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all
>> worked fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM
>> code is indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter
>> depending on your hardware configuration).
>>
>> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit confused.
>> I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>>
>> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
>> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
>> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>>
>> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
>> type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
>> all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>>
>> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wayne,
>>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>>> Nik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>
>>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>>> using?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>>

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brizza
2013-05-25 11:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
You have'nt broken my setup :-) Actually my existing system is using Dan
Werners BIOS and running a VDU and SCG card with a two monitors. I'd like
to use your BIOS with a "real" terminal and 5.25 inch drives and perhaps
the cassette interface later on :-)
Yes i'm getting the boot messages. i just cant select the boot device since
the keyboard wont respond.
Kind Regards,
Nik

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:23:18 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Yikes, it sure sounds like I have done something to break things in your
> setup.
>
> Do you get the boot messages like the ones I have listed below? Do yours
> look any different? I assume you get stuck at the BOOT prompt, right?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> Boot....
>
> N8VEM Z80 @ 8MHz ROM=512KB RAM=512KB
> UART0: IO=0x68 BAUD=9600
> FD: IO=0x36 UNITS=2
> PPIDE: IO=0x20 UNITS=2
>
> N8VEM HBIOS v2.5 - Beta 7 (RomWBW-WWarthen-130524T0926)
>
> A=RAM B=ROM C=FD0 D=FD1 E=PPIDE0-00 F=PPIDE0-01 G=PPIDE0-02 H=PPIDE0-03
> Boot: (M)onitor, (R)OM, or Drive Letter ===>
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:45:12 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wayne,
>> Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom bios
>> and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
>> Thanks,
>> Nik
>>
>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Nik,
>>>
>>> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all
>>> worked fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM
>>> code is indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter
>>> depending on your hardware configuration).
>>>
>>> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit
>>> confused. I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>>>
>>> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
>>> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
>>> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>>>
>>> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
>>> type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
>>> all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>>>
>>> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>>>> Nik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>>>> using?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-25 15:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

I'm really perplexed and definitely want to track this down because I
suspect there is some subtle issue that other people will hit as well. You
are an excellent test case for the new version of the RomWBW bios.

I am going to post a new beta version of v2.5 later today. I will also
send you an email with a pre-built image of beta version that I will have
tested on my system. The image I send you will be setup for 9600 baud.

The new beta does have support for the cassette interface. I am pretty
sure it is working correctly, but I am having some challenges with my
cassette interface hardware, so my testing is not quite perfect.

In the meantime, here is a new list of questions and things you could
respond to or try if you have any time...

1. Which hardware variant of the N8VEM SBC do you have? The original
one or the SBCv2? All of my testing is on the SBCv2 because that is all I
have.
2. I want to make absolutely sure I understand how far the problematic
RomWBW v2.5 boot process gets. Can you confirm that you get all the way to
the point where you see the "===>" prompt from the boot loader?
3. What variant of the UART chip are you running? TL16C550C?
4. Do you have a way of trying the problematic RomWBW v2.5 on a PC (with
flow control disabled)? If so, does that work?
5. Can you try the problematic RomWBW v2.5 with no other cards
installed? Either by pulling the SBC out of the backplane or by removing
all of the other cards from the backplane?

I appreciate any help you can provide because I really want to get this
resolved.

Thanks!

Wayne

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:43:59 AM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> You have'nt broken my setup :-) Actually my existing system is using Dan
> Werners BIOS and running a VDU and SCG card with a two monitors. I'd like
> to use your BIOS with a "real" terminal and 5.25 inch drives and perhaps
> the cassette interface later on :-)
> Yes i'm getting the boot messages. i just cant select the boot device
> since the keyboard wont respond.
> Kind Regards,
> Nik
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:23:18 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Yikes, it sure sounds like I have done something to break things in your
>> setup.
>>
>> Do you get the boot messages like the ones I have listed below? Do yours
>> look any different? I assume you get stuck at the BOOT prompt, right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> Boot....
>>
>> N8VEM Z80 @ 8MHz ROM=512KB RAM=512KB
>> UART0: IO=0x68 BAUD=9600
>> FD: IO=0x36 UNITS=2
>> PPIDE: IO=0x20 UNITS=2
>>
>> N8VEM HBIOS v2.5 - Beta 7 (RomWBW-WWarthen-130524T0926)
>>
>> A=RAM B=ROM C=FD0 D=FD1 E=PPIDE0-00 F=PPIDE0-01 G=PPIDE0-02 H=PPIDE0-03
>> Boot: (M)onitor, (R)OM, or Drive Letter ===>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:45:12 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wayne,
>>> Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom bios
>>> and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nik
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>
>>>> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all
>>>> worked fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM
>>>> code is indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter
>>>> depending on your hardware configuration).
>>>>
>>>> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit
>>>> confused. I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>>>>
>>>> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
>>>> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
>>>> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>>>>
>>>> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
>>>> type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
>>>> all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>>>>
>>>> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>>>>> Nik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>>>>> using?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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brizza
2013-05-26 00:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
No worries, Happy to do the testing.
To answer your questions below;
I'm using the original SBC , although i've built the SBCv2 but have'nt got
it working yet.
The boot message that appears does go all the way to the ===> prompt.
Using an 8250 UART and the WBW bios works fine with the PC terminal
emulator, I think i have a 16550 UART somewhere to try.note i disabled FIFO
in the config file.
The setup i have at the moment is the sbc and diskio3 only plugged into a
smaller backplane but i can test the SBC board on it's own.
Appreciate your help with this !
Regards,
Nik










On Sunday, May 26, 2013 1:21:27 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> I'm really perplexed and definitely want to track this down because I
> suspect there is some subtle issue that other people will hit as well. You
> are an excellent test case for the new version of the RomWBW bios.
>
> I am going to post a new beta version of v2.5 later today. I will also
> send you an email with a pre-built image of beta version that I will have
> tested on my system. The image I send you will be setup for 9600 baud.
>
> The new beta does have support for the cassette interface. I am pretty
> sure it is working correctly, but I am having some challenges with my
> cassette interface hardware, so my testing is not quite perfect.
>
> In the meantime, here is a new list of questions and things you could
> respond to or try if you have any time...
>
> 1. Which hardware variant of the N8VEM SBC do you have? The original
> one or the SBCv2? All of my testing is on the SBCv2 because that is all I
> have.
> 2. I want to make absolutely sure I understand how far the problematic
> RomWBW v2.5 boot process gets. Can you confirm that you get all the way to
> the point where you see the "===>" prompt from the boot loader?
> 3. What variant of the UART chip are you running? TL16C550C?
> 4. Do you have a way of trying the problematic RomWBW v2.5 on a PC
> (with flow control disabled)? If so, does that work?
> 5. Can you try the problematic RomWBW v2.5 with no other cards
> installed? Either by pulling the SBC out of the backplane or by removing
> all of the other cards from the backplane?
>
> I appreciate any help you can provide because I really want to get this
> resolved.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wayne
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:43:59 AM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wayne,
>> You have'nt broken my setup :-) Actually my existing system is using Dan
>> Werners BIOS and running a VDU and SCG card with a two monitors. I'd like
>> to use your BIOS with a "real" terminal and 5.25 inch drives and perhaps
>> the cassette interface later on :-)
>> Yes i'm getting the boot messages. i just cant select the boot device
>> since the keyboard wont respond.
>> Kind Regards,
>> Nik
>>
>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:23:18 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Yikes, it sure sounds like I have done something to break things in your
>>> setup.
>>>
>>> Do you get the boot messages like the ones I have listed below? Do
>>> yours look any different? I assume you get stuck at the BOOT prompt, right?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> Boot....
>>>
>>> N8VEM Z80 @ 8MHz ROM=512KB RAM=512KB
>>> UART0: IO=0x68 BAUD=9600
>>> FD: IO=0x36 UNITS=2
>>> PPIDE: IO=0x20 UNITS=2
>>>
>>> N8VEM HBIOS v2.5 - Beta 7 (RomWBW-WWarthen-130524T0926)
>>>
>>> A=RAM B=ROM C=FD0 D=FD1 E=PPIDE0-00 F=PPIDE0-01 G=PPIDE0-02 H=PPIDE0-03
>>> Boot: (M)onitor, (R)OM, or Drive Letter ===>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:45:12 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>> Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom
>>>> bios and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Nik
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>>
>>>>> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all
>>>>> worked fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM
>>>>> code is indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter
>>>>> depending on your hardware configuration).
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit
>>>>> confused. I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
>>>>> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
>>>>> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the
>>>>> terminal type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding
>>>>> making sure all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>>>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>>>>>> Nik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>>>>>> using?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 03:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

Excellent information.

I am very relieved to hear that RomWBW is working with the PC terminal
emulator. I was beginning to think that the BIOS has simply crashed/locked
up on your hardware after issuing the prompt. However, the fact that it is
working with your PC terminal emulator indicates that it is indeed
something related to the serial port configuration combined with the
Hazeltine terminal.

>From your answers, there are two obvious differences in your hardware
versus my testing environment:

1. You are using an 8250 UART. I am using a 16C550C.
2. You are using an original SBC. I am using an SBCv2.

This gives me a little more to go on. I will start investigating the
differences above. There is a little bit more UART chip version discovery
logic in the new ROM. That is where I will look first.

If you can try a 15C550C (or similar) UART, that would be interesting.

Thanks,

Wayne

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 5:54:32 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> No worries, Happy to do the testing.
> To answer your questions below;
> I'm using the original SBC , although i've built the SBCv2 but have'nt got
> it working yet.
> The boot message that appears does go all the way to the ===> prompt.
> Using an 8250 UART and the WBW bios works fine with the PC terminal
> emulator, I think i have a 16550 UART somewhere to try.note i disabled FIFO
> in the config file.
> The setup i have at the moment is the sbc and diskio3 only plugged into a
> smaller backplane but i can test the SBC board on it's own.
> Appreciate your help with this !
> Regards,
> Nik
>
>>

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brizza
2013-05-26 05:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
Thanks. I have a couple 16550's but not the C versions. No noticeale change
using the 16550's. I'll source some 16C550C's and let you know.
I noticed also that the WBW bios worked fine with the PC up until v1.5 but
the current v2.5 locks up when it is formatting RAM...might be another
issue with the v1 SBC's

Regards,
Nik

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 1:05:46 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> Excellent information.
>
> I am very relieved to hear that RomWBW is working with the PC terminal
> emulator. I was beginning to think that the BIOS has simply crashed/locked
> up on your hardware after issuing the prompt. However, the fact that it is
> working with your PC terminal emulator indicates that it is indeed
> something related to the serial port configuration combined with the
> Hazeltine terminal.
>
> From your answers, there are two obvious differences in your hardware
> versus my testing environment:
>
> 1. You are using an 8250 UART. I am using a 16C550C.
> 2. You are using an original SBC. I am using an SBCv2.
>
> This gives me a little more to go on. I will start investigating the
> differences above. There is a little bit more UART chip version discovery
> logic in the new ROM. That is where I will look first.
>
> If you can try a 15C550C (or similar) UART, that would be interesting.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 5:54:32 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wayne,
>> No worries, Happy to do the testing.
>> To answer your questions below;
>> I'm using the original SBC , although i've built the SBCv2 but have'nt
>> got it working yet.
>> The boot message that appears does go all the way to the ===> prompt.
>> Using an 8250 UART and the WBW bios works fine with the PC terminal
>> emulator, I think i have a 16550 UART somewhere to try.note i disabled FIFO
>> in the config file.
>> The setup i have at the moment is the sbc and diskio3 only plugged into a
>> smaller backplane but i can test the SBC board on it's own.
>> Appreciate your help with this !
>> Regards,
>> Nik
>>
>>>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 05:36:13 UTC
Permalink
This is interesting. Starting at RomWBW v2.0, bank switching was implemented. There may be a problem with the bank switching implementation in RomWBW on the original SBC.

Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?

Thanks,

Wayne
John Coffman
2013-05-26 07:05:27 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Wayne,<br>
<br>
At the time the SBC v1 was being updated to v2, a possible race
condition was eliminated in the bank switching circuitry.&nbsp; With
Z80's at or below 8Mhz with the BIOS's of the time, there was never
a problem.&nbsp; I know that the logic equations for v1 and v2 are
identical.<br>
<br>
However, the v1 board may experience a settling time if one of the
mapping registers is changed, and the next instruction fetch depends
on the updated value.&nbsp; The v2 board should be much more robust in
this respect.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/25/2013 10:36 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:bb31b826-7850-44ac-8548-58d24ebd8079-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This is interesting. Starting at RomWBW v2.0, bank switching was implemented. There may be a problem with the bank switching implementation in RomWBW on the original SBC.

Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?

Thanks,

Wayne

</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 14:58:34 UTC
Permalink
This is very good to know. I will review my code to see if this might be the issue.

Nik, what speed is your SBC running?

RomWBW v2.0 and later will stress the bank switching very hard. For example, every time the code checks for a character at the serial port, it will bank switch to get to the driver code. When waiting for a character, you will be in a fairly tight loop constantly doing bank switches. I have a vague recollection that I changed the location of the stack to the driver bank in later versions of RomWBW. Entirely possible that the race condition is involved here. I could add NOPs conditionally as a way to work around this when needed.

Thanks,

Wayne

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 19:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Well, I looked at the bank switching code pretty closely. It looks to me
like the instruction immediately following any bank switch is not dependent
on the bank switch process. It is the case that the second instruction
following the switch is dependent on the bank switch being complete and
stable.

One of the primary differences between v2.1.1 and the v2.5 Beta versions is
that I move the stack into the driver bank when the driver bank is active.
This was done to save space in high memory. This change would certainly
make the stability of the bank switch process extremely critical. I can't
prove it, but it seems like it has potential for being the issue with
SBCv1. I think I will back this change out and update the beta release to
see if that helps Nik.

Thanks,

Wayne

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:58:34 AM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> This is very good to know. I will review my code to see if this might be
> the issue.
>
> Nik, what speed is your SBC running?
>
> RomWBW v2.0 and later will stress the bank switching very hard. For
> example, every time the code checks for a character at the serial port, it
> will bank switch to get to the driver code. When waiting for a character,
> you will be in a fairly tight loop constantly doing bank switches. I have
> a vague recollection that I changed the location of the stack to the driver
> bank in later versions of RomWBW. Entirely possible that the race
> condition is involved here. I could add NOPs conditionally as a way to
> work around this when needed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
>

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brizza
2013-05-26 22:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
After seeing Oscars note about 2.1.1 working on his SBCv1.0, i found a copy
of the release and tried to duplicate the result, sadly it still locks up
when formatting RAM. My SBC is running at 8mhz.

Regards,
Nik

On Monday, May 27, 2013 5:10:27 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Well, I looked at the bank switching code pretty closely. It looks to me
> like the instruction immediately following any bank switch is not dependent
> on the bank switch process. It is the case that the second instruction
> following the switch is dependent on the bank switch being complete and
> stable.
>
> One of the primary differences between v2.1.1 and the v2.5 Beta versions
> is that I move the stack into the driver bank when the driver bank is
> active. This was done to save space in high memory. This change would
> certainly make the stability of the bank switch process extremely critical.
> I can't prove it, but it seems like it has potential for being the issue
> with SBCv1. I think I will back this change out and update the beta
> release to see if that helps Nik.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> On Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:58:34 AM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> This is very good to know. I will review my code to see if this might be
>> the issue.
>>
>> Nik, what speed is your SBC running?
>>
>> RomWBW v2.0 and later will stress the bank switching very hard. For
>> example, every time the code checks for a character at the serial port, it
>> will bank switch to get to the driver code. When waiting for a character,
>> you will be in a fairly tight loop constantly doing bank switches. I have
>> a vague recollection that I changed the location of the stack to the driver
>> bank in later versions of RomWBW. Entirely possible that the race
>> condition is involved here. I could add NOPs conditionally as a way to
>> work around this when needed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>

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Max Scane
2013-05-27 02:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Gents, I just tried 2.5 Beta on my V1 and it booted up fine. No problems formatting RAM. Clock is 6 MHz with a 16450 UART.

Let me know if there anything I can test for you.

Regards,

Max

Sent from my iPad

On 27/05/2013, at 8:44 AM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi Wayne,
> After seeing Oscars note about 2.1.1 working on his SBCv1.0, i found a copy of the release and tried to duplicate the result, sadly it still locks up when formatting RAM. My SBC is running at 8mhz.
>
> Regards,
> Nik
>
> On Monday, May 27, 2013 5:10:27 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Well, I looked at the bank switching code pretty closely. It looks to me like the instruction immediately following any bank switch is not dependent on the bank switch process. It is the case that the second instruction following the switch is dependent on the bank switch being complete and stable.
>>
>> One of the primary differences between v2.1.1 and the v2.5 Beta versions is that I move the stack into the driver bank when the driver bank is active. This was done to save space in high memory. This change would certainly make the stability of the bank switch process extremely critical. I can't prove it, but it seems like it has potential for being the issue with SBCv1. I think I will back this change out and update the beta release to see if that helps Nik.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:58:34 AM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> This is very good to know. I will review my code to see if this might be the issue.
>>> Nik, what speed is your SBC running?
>>>
>>> RomWBW v2.0 and later will stress the bank switching very hard. For example, every time the code checks for a character at the serial port, it will bank switch to get to the driver code. When waiting for a character, you will be in a fairly tight loop constantly doing bank switches. I have a vague recollection that I changed the location of the stack to the driver bank in later versions of RomWBW. Entirely possible that the race condition is involved here. I could add NOPs conditionally as a way to work around this when needed.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>
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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-27 04:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Thank you very much for trying this Max.

Nik, I am not quite sure what to have you try next. Clearly, there is some
issue with the combination of RomWBW and your hardware. Do you have some
slower oscillators? I would use the slowest CPU clock oscillator you have
just to see if the problem is mitigated when you run your hardware slower.

If anyone else has any good ideas on how to track this down, I'd be happy
to hear them... :-)

Thanks,

Wayne



On Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:42:00 PM UTC-7, Max Scane wrote:
>
> Gents, I just tried 2.5 Beta on my V1 and it booted up fine. No problems
> formatting RAM. Clock is 6 MHz with a 16450 UART.
>
> Let me know if there anything I can test for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Max
>

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oscarv
2013-05-26 08:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Wayne,

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 7:36:13 AM UTC+2, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?
>

Yes - 2.1.1, no problems with terminal I/O.

Regards,

Oscar.

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 15:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Oscar,

Thanks for letting me know this.

What speed is your SBC running?

If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com from the output directory of the current RomWBW Beta posted on the Wiki. Copy it to your SBC using XM and run it. This will let you load and run the BIOS without reprogramming your EPROM. Would be interesting to see if this works.

Thanks,

Wayne

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oscarv
2013-05-27 19:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Wayne,


What speed is your SBC running?
>
That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.


> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>
I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from home
alas.

Regards,

Oscar.

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-27 21:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Oscar.

Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower CPU
clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower clock
speed if you can.

If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options for
conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.

Thanks,

Wayne

On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
>
> What speed is your SBC running?
>>
> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>
>
>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>
> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from home
> alas.
>
> Regards,
>
> Oscar.
>
>

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brizza
2013-05-27 23:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip also.
I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some larger
eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
Nik

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Thanks Oscar.
>
> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower CPU
> clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower clock
> speed if you can.
>
> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options for
> conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>
>> Wayne,
>>
>>
>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>
>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>
>>
>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>
>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from
>> home alas.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Oscar.
>>
>>

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2013-05-28 00:00:23 UTC
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Nik,<br>
<br>
The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that
may be redundant:&nbsp; do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU
board of the N8VEM flavor?<br>
<br>
The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication
problem, likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable.&nbsp; My
guess is that the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because
it is not seeing the combination of RS-232 control signals that it
requires.<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TXD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crossed to &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RXD &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the null modem
cable<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DTR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; probably crossed to&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp; in the null modem
cable<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD.&nbsp;&nbsp; /RTS would cross to /CTS
in a null modem cable.<br>
<br>
It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or
more of the following:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (6)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
connector<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (8)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CTS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (5)<br>
<br>
My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above.&nbsp; In other words, at
the 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,<br>
in the idle state, pins:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1,7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ground<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2,3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt; -3v<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4,5,6,8,20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; +3v<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:4d709b06-27ed-4946-9d27-8d6037256e1e-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi Wayne,
<div>Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the
RAM chip also.</div>
<div>I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and
some larger eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .</div>
<div>In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.</div>
<div>Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks Oscar.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are
running a slower CPU clock, I definitely think it would be
good if you could try a slower clock speed if you can.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at
options for conditionally adding some delays after bank
switches.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wayne<br>
<br>
On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Wayne,<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>What speed is your SBC running?</p>
</blockquote>
<div>That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>If convenient, perhaps you could extract
NAVEM_std.com</p>
</blockquote>
<div>I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back
as I'm away from home alas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oscar.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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brizza
2013-05-28 00:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the Hazeltine goes,
Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's
default ROM. So from that i'm guessing the right signals are all present. I
will however build another cable that includes the other signals if it
helps with the
WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.
Thanks again,
Nik


On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>
> Nik,
>
> The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that may be
> redundant: do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU board of the
> N8VEM flavor?
>
> The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication problem,
> likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable. My guess is that
> the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
> combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.
>
> The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:
>
> TXD crossed to RXD in the null modem cable
> /DTR probably crossed to /DSR in the null modem cable
>
> The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD. /RTS would cross to /CTS in a
> null modem cable.
>
> It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or more of
> the following:
>
> /DSR (6) pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
> connector
> /CD (8)
> /CTS (5)
>
> My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above. In other words, at the
> 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,
> in the idle state, pins:
>
> 1,7 ground
> 2,3 < -3v
> 4,5,6,8,20 > +3v
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip also.
> I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some larger
> eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
> In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
> Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
> Nik
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Oscar.
>>
>> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower CPU
>> clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower clock
>> speed if you can.
>>
>> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options for
>> conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>>
>>> Wayne,
>>>
>>>
>>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>>
>>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>>
>>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from
>>> home alas.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Oscar.
>>>
>>> --
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>
>
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John Coffman
2013-05-28 00:16:19 UTC
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Nik,<br>
<br>
If it works with the other BIOS's, then it is not a cable problem.<br>
<br>
An old BIOS bug was not asserting DTR in the UART setup code.&nbsp; Fixed
in all the old BIOS's.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:e779e7a3-1781-4450-a058-73c1eff93cf9-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi John,
<div>Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the
Hazeltine goes, Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS
flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's default ROM. So from that i'm
guessing the right signals are all present. I will however build
another cable that includes the other signals if it helps with
the</div>
<div>WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.</div>
<div>Thanks again,</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Nik,<br>
<br>
The discussion has become so involved that I have a question
that may be redundant:&nbsp; do you have the Hazletine working
with any CPU board of the N8VEM flavor?<br>
<br>
The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232
communication problem, likely resolvable with a custom-wired
null modem cable.&nbsp; My guess is that the Hazletine will not
send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TXD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crossed to &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RXD &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the
null modem cable<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DTR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; probably crossed to&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp; in the null
modem cable<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD.&nbsp;&nbsp; /RTS would cross
to /CTS in a null modem cable.<br>
<br>
It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for
one or more of the following:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (6)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pin numbers for the
25-pin RS-232 connector<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (8)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CTS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (5)<br>
<br>
My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above.&nbsp; In other
words, at the 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,<br>
in the idle state, pins:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1,7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ground<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2,3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt; -3v<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4,5,6,8,20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; +3v<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Wayne,
<div>Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried
replacing the RAM chip also.</div>
<div>I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the
8250 and some larger eproms (27C080) to replace the
27C040's .</div>
<div>In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.</div>
<div>Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne
Warthen wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks Oscar.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max
are running a slower CPU clock, I definitely think
it would be good if you could try a slower clock
speed if you can.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will
look at options for conditionally adding some delays
after bank switches.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wayne<br>
<br>
On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Wayne,<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>What speed is your SBC running?</p>
</blockquote>
<div>That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>If convenient, perhaps you could extract
NAVEM_std.com</p>
</blockquote>
<div>I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to
report back as I'm away from home alas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oscar.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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John Coffman
2013-05-28 00:22:55 UTC
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Nik,<br>
<br>
If you are building a custom ROM, then you have probably turned off
"Auto Flow Control."&nbsp; It doesn't exist on the 8250, 8250A, or 8250B;
and it is broken in the TL16C550C DIP version.&nbsp; Wayne reports to me
that it works in the TL16C550C PLCC version, used on the MF/PIC
board.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:e779e7a3-1781-4450-a058-73c1eff93cf9-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi John,
<div>Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the
Hazeltine goes, Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS
flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's default ROM. So from that i'm
guessing the right signals are all present. I will however build
another cable that includes the other signals if it helps with
the</div>
<div>WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.</div>
<div>Thanks again,</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Nik,<br>
<br>
The discussion has become so involved that I have a question
that may be redundant:&nbsp; do you have the Hazletine working
with any CPU board of the N8VEM flavor?<br>
<br>
The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232
communication problem, likely resolvable with a custom-wired
null modem cable.&nbsp; My guess is that the Hazletine will not
send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TXD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crossed to &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RXD &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the
null modem cable<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DTR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; probably crossed to&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp; in the null
modem cable<br>
<br>
The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD.&nbsp;&nbsp; /RTS would cross
to /CTS in a null modem cable.<br>
<br>
It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for
one or more of the following:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /DSR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (6)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pin numbers for the
25-pin RS-232 connector<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (8)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /CTS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (5)<br>
<br>
My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above.&nbsp; In other
words, at the 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,<br>
in the idle state, pins:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1,7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ground<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2,3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt; -3v<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4,5,6,8,20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; +3v<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Wayne,
<div>Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried
replacing the RAM chip also.</div>
<div>I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the
8250 and some larger eproms (27C080) to replace the
27C040's .</div>
<div>In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.</div>
<div>Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne
Warthen wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks Oscar.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max
are running a slower CPU clock, I definitely think
it would be good if you could try a slower clock
speed if you can.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will
look at options for conditionally adding some delays
after bank switches.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wayne<br>
<br>
On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Wayne,<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>What speed is your SBC running?</p>
</blockquote>
<div>That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>If convenient, perhaps you could extract
NAVEM_std.com</p>
</blockquote>
<div>I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to
report back as I'm away from home alas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oscar.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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brizza
2013-05-28 00:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
Thanks. Autoflow is FALSE by default in the config file. I'll turn it on
and see how it goes.

Regards,
Nik

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:22:55 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>
> Nik,
>
> If you are building a custom ROM, then you have probably turned off "Auto
> Flow Control." It doesn't exist on the 8250, 8250A, or 8250B; and it is
> broken in the TL16C550C DIP version. Wayne reports to me that it works in
> the TL16C550C PLCC version, used on the MF/PIC board.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
> On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi John,
> Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the Hazeltine goes,
> Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's
> default ROM. So from that i'm guessing the right signals are all present. I
> will however build another cable that includes the other signals if it
> helps with the
> WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.
> Thanks again,
> Nik
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>
>> Nik,
>>
>> The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that may be
>> redundant: do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU board of the
>> N8VEM flavor?
>>
>> The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication problem,
>> likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable. My guess is that
>> the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
>> combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.
>>
>> The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:
>>
>> TXD crossed to RXD in the null modem cable
>> /DTR probably crossed to /DSR in the null modem cable
>>
>> The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD. /RTS would cross to /CTS in a
>> null modem cable.
>>
>> It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or more of
>> the following:
>>
>> /DSR (6) pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
>> connector
>> /CD (8)
>> /CTS (5)
>>
>> My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above. In other words, at the
>> 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,
>> in the idle state, pins:
>>
>> 1,7 ground
>> 2,3 < -3v
>> 4,5,6,8,20 > +3v
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wayne,
>> Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip also.
>> I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some larger
>> eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
>> In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
>> Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
>> Nik
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Oscar.
>>>
>>> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower
>>> CPU clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower
>>> clock speed if you can.
>>>
>>> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options for
>>> conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wayne,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>>>
>>>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>>>
>>>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from
>>>> home alas.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Oscar.
>>>>
>>>> --
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Max Scane
2013-05-28 00:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

I have had a lot of success with the combination of a small IDC cable from
the 10 pin header on the SBC to DE9 Male + Standard PC "Null Modem" Cable
(DE9 Female - DE9 Female). I have pretty much thrown away my custom cables
and standardised on that combination.

Cheers!

Max


On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi John,
> Thanks. Autoflow is FALSE by default in the config file. I'll turn it on
> and see how it goes.
>
> Regards,
> Nik
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:22:55 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>
>> Nik,
>>
>> If you are building a custom ROM, then you have probably turned off "Auto
>> Flow Control." It doesn't exist on the 8250, 8250A, or 8250B; and it is
>> broken in the TL16C550C DIP version. Wayne reports to me that it works in
>> the TL16C550C PLCC version, used on the MF/PIC board.
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>> Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the Hazeltine goes,
>> Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's
>> default ROM. So from that i'm guessing the right signals are all present. I
>> will however build another cable that includes the other signals if it
>> helps with the
>> WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.
>> Thanks again,
>> Nik
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>>
>>> Nik,
>>>
>>> The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that may be
>>> redundant: do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU board of the
>>> N8VEM flavor?
>>>
>>> The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication problem,
>>> likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable. My guess is that
>>> the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
>>> combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.
>>>
>>> The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:
>>>
>>> TXD crossed to RXD in the null modem cable
>>> /DTR probably crossed to /DSR in the null modem cable
>>>
>>> The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD. /RTS would cross to /CTS in a
>>> null modem cable.
>>>
>>> It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or more of
>>> the following:
>>>
>>> /DSR (6) pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
>>> connector
>>> /CD (8)
>>> /CTS (5)
>>>
>>> My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above. In other words, at the
>>> 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,
>>> in the idle state, pins:
>>>
>>> 1,7 ground
>>> 2,3 < -3v
>>> 4,5,6,8,20 > +3v
>>>
>>> --John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wayne,
>>> Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip also.
>>> I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some
>>> larger eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
>>> In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
>>> Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
>>> Nik
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Oscar.
>>>>
>>>> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower
>>>> CPU clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower
>>>> clock speed if you can.
>>>>
>>>> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options for
>>>> conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>>>>
>>>>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from
>>>>> home alas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Oscar.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "N8VEM" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to n8vem+un...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/***@public.gmane.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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brizza
2013-05-28 02:09:01 UTC
Permalink
HI Max,
Thanks. That's almost too easy :-)

Cheers,
Nik

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:58:13 AM UTC+10, Max Scane wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> I have had a lot of success with the combination of a small IDC cable from
> the 10 pin header on the SBC to DE9 Male + Standard PC "Null Modem" Cable
> (DE9 Female - DE9 Female). I have pretty much thrown away my custom cables
> and standardised on that combination.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Max
>
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>> Thanks. Autoflow is FALSE by default in the config file. I'll turn it on
>> and see how it goes.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nik
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:22:55 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>>
>>> Nik,
>>>
>>> If you are building a custom ROM, then you have probably turned off
>>> "Auto Flow Control." It doesn't exist on the 8250, 8250A, or 8250B; and it
>>> is broken in the TL16C550C DIP version. Wayne reports to me that it works
>>> in the TL16C550C PLCC version, used on the MF/PIC board.
>>>
>>> --John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the Hazeltine goes,
>>> Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS flavors ie DW, DG and Andrew's
>>> default ROM. So from that i'm guessing the right signals are all present. I
>>> will however build another cable that includes the other signals if it
>>> helps with the
>>> WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Nik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nik,
>>>>
>>>> The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that may
>>>> be redundant: do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU board of the
>>>> N8VEM flavor?
>>>>
>>>> The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication problem,
>>>> likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable. My guess is that
>>>> the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
>>>> combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.
>>>>
>>>> The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:
>>>>
>>>> TXD crossed to RXD in the null modem
>>>> cable
>>>> /DTR probably crossed to /DSR in the null modem cable
>>>>
>>>> The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD. /RTS would cross to /CTS in
>>>> a null modem cable.
>>>>
>>>> It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or more
>>>> of the following:
>>>>
>>>> /DSR (6) pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
>>>> connector
>>>> /CD (8)
>>>> /CTS (5)
>>>>
>>>> My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above. In other words, at
>>>> the 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,
>>>> in the idle state, pins:
>>>>
>>>> 1,7 ground
>>>> 2,3 < -3v
>>>> 4,5,6,8,20 > +3v
>>>>
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>> Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip
>>>> also.
>>>> I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some
>>>> larger eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
>>>> In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
>>>> Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
>>>> Nik
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Oscar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower
>>>>> CPU clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower
>>>>> clock speed if you can.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options
>>>>> for conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away from
>>>>>> home alas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oscar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "N8VEM" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to n8vem+un...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/***@public.gmane.org
>>>> To post to this group, send email to n8...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/***@public.gmane.org
>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/n8vem?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem?hl=en>
>>>> .
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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Max Scane
2013-05-28 02:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Yes, for example I am using the N8 with console port going to my desktop PC
via a Null modem etc and the second port goes to a Linux PC via a null
modem for a CP/Net connection.

To test the SBC I just moved the 10 pin IDC from the N8 to the SBC and
changed the Baud rate. All works fine.

Mind you it has taken me long time to arrive at such a simple
configuration.. :-)

Cheers!

Max



On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:09 PM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> HI Max,
> Thanks. That's almost too easy :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Nik
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:58:13 AM UTC+10, Max Scane wrote:
>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> I have had a lot of success with the combination of a small IDC cable
>> from the 10 pin header on the SBC to DE9 Male + Standard PC "Null Modem"
>> Cable (DE9 Female - DE9 Female). I have pretty much thrown away my custom
>> cables and standardised on that combination.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> Thanks. Autoflow is FALSE by default in the config file. I'll turn it on
>>> and see how it goes.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:22:55 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nik,
>>>>
>>>> If you are building a custom ROM, then you have probably turned off
>>>> "Auto Flow Control." It doesn't exist on the 8250, 8250A, or 8250B; and it
>>>> is broken in the TL16C550C DIP version. Wayne reports to me that it works
>>>> in the TL16C550C PLCC version, used on the MF/PIC board.
>>>>
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05/27/2013 05:13 PM, brizza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> Yes there are two seperate issues now. But as far as the Hazeltine
>>>> goes, Yes it works with all of the previous BIOS flavors ie DW, DG and
>>>> Andrew's default ROM. So from that i'm guessing the right signals are all
>>>> present. I will however build another cable that includes the other signals
>>>> if it helps with the
>>>> WDW BIOS, just waiting for the RS232 test dongle to arrive.
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>> Nik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:00:23 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nik,
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion has become so involved that I have a question that may
>>>>> be redundant: do you have the Hazletine working with any CPU board of the
>>>>> N8VEM flavor?
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem sounds more and more like an RS-232 communication problem,
>>>>> likely resolvable with a custom-wired null modem cable. My guess is that
>>>>> the Hazletine will not send from the keyboard because it is not seeing the
>>>>> combination of RS-232 control signals that it requires.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SBC v1 puts out only 2 signals:
>>>>>
>>>>> TXD crossed to RXD in the null modem
>>>>> cable
>>>>> /DTR probably crossed to /DSR in the null modem cable
>>>>>
>>>>> The SBC v1 does not put out /RTS or /CD. /RTS would cross to /CTS in
>>>>> a null modem cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is entirely possible that the Hazletine is looking for one or more
>>>>> of the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> /DSR (6) pin numbers for the 25-pin RS-232
>>>>> connector
>>>>> /CD (8)
>>>>> /CTS (5)
>>>>>
>>>>> My Wyse-30 terminal requires all 3 of the above. In other words, at
>>>>> the 25-pin connector on the back of the Wyse,
>>>>> in the idle state, pins:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1,7 ground
>>>>> 2,3 < -3v
>>>>> 4,5,6,8,20 > +3v
>>>>>
>>>>> --John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 05/27/2013 04:39 PM, brizza wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Wayne,
>>>>> Running at 4MHZ made no change. I have tried replacing the RAM chip
>>>>> also.
>>>>> I have ordering a couple of 16C550C's to replace the 8250 and some
>>>>> larger eproms (27C080) to replace the 27C040's .
>>>>> In the meantime i'll try and get my SBC V2 working.
>>>>> Thanks to all for your tireless efforts of help :-)
>>>>> Nik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:52:15 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Oscar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nik, based on the fact that both Oscar and Max are running a slower
>>>>>> CPU clock, I definitely think it would be good if you could try a slower
>>>>>> clock speed if you can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If a slower cpu clock seems to fix things, I will look at options
>>>>>> for conditionally adding some delays after bank switches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:56:09 PM UTC-7, oscarv wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wayne,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What speed is your SBC running?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That may confirm your suspicion: a slow 4Mhz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If convenient, perhaps you could extract NAVEM_std.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll have a go, but it'll take a week to report back as I'm away
>>>>>>> from home alas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oscar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>
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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-28 04:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks,

Well, the fact that earlier BIOS' are all working fine makes me think that
the Hazeltine terminal issue is really a second order effect. Personally,
I find the failure to complete the RAM DISK formatting a very telling
indicator that some kind of code corruption has occurred. If code
corruption is occurring, the symptoms will be almost random.

One of the major differences in the v2.X RomWBW line is that it copies all
driver code from ROM to *bank switched* RAM. If at any point the driver
code in RAM bank 0 is corrupted, things will get very flaky very fast.
UART initialization is performed *after* the code is copied to bank
switched RAM. If the copy operation does not have 100% integrity, I could
imagine that the UART initialization is not right or the UART driver has
been corrupted in some other way. The fact that you can get further with
v2.1.1 vs 2.5 could simply be due to the location in memory where the UART
driver happens to land in the two different versions.

I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact the integrity
of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. The fact that some folks seem
to be having success with the SBCv1 and RomWBW v2.5 definitely seems to
point to a random issue of some kind. Today, I was able to push my SBCv2
all the way to 20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a
separate board connected on the backplane). So, I don't think there is a
generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. If the core problem does
turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not sure I have any good
options to resolve it.

If anyone has any further thoughts on things I could do to pin this down,
let me know. Even if I cannot provide a complete solution, I would at
least like to know the true nature of the issue. Guess that may not be
possible.

Regarding the RS-232 cable setup discussion, I also use a simple null modem
adapter with excellent results. In addition, I have a cheap little 9-pin
RS-232 tester that can be placed inline. This allows me to know for
certain what signals are asserted and not guess about it. I have found it
invaluable. I got mine on eBay and it looks exactly like item
#150717028694. However, I think I paid a lot less than $45 for mine.

Thanks for everyone's help with this!

Wayne

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John Coffman
2013-05-28 22:31:06 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
On 05/27/2013 09:49 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:4aac6e94-0186-494f-a077-803432265ee5-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<div>I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact
the integrity of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. &nbsp;The
fact that some folks seem to be having success with the SBCv1
and RomWBW v2.5 definitely seems to point to a random issue of
some kind. Today, I was able to push my SBCv2 all the way to
20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a separate
board connected on the backplane). &nbsp;So, I don't think there is a
generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. &nbsp;If the core
problem does turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not
sure I have any good options to resolve it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Wayne,<br>
<br>
I was never able to push the SBC v1 to 20Mhz.&nbsp; It failed at 16Mhz;
but ran at 12Mhz.<br>
<br>
The circuit differences between the v1 and v2 all involve memory
selects.&nbsp; The v2 can be strapped for 32K/32K operation, or 48K/16K;
the v1 only operates 32K/32K.&nbsp; With actual jumpers in place, I see
no timing issues in this circuit, "RAM/ROM extended addressing
logic.".<br>
<br>
The second area regarding memory select is the "RAM/ROM memory
decode logic."&nbsp; The v2 is a <i>much</i> cleaner circuit.&nbsp; On v1,
the "/CS_RAM" signal can definitely have a glitch on it -- and the
glitch will be independent of the CPU clock rate.&nbsp; It will depend
upon the chip speeds in the decode logic.<br>
<br>
If you can push the SBC v2 to 20Mhz, then there is a definite
difference between it and the SBC v1.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-06-10 01:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

Not sure if you have made any progress or not. Wanted to mention that I
posted the latest beta version of RomWBW v2.5 a few minutes ago. There are
a couple changes in there that may help stabilize things for you:

1. Fairly robust UART chip detection logic. I have successfully tested
the code and it accurate identifies 16450, 16550, 16550A, 16550C, 16650,
and 16750. I am pretty sure it will identify an older 8250 as well, but do
not have one to confirm it.
2. Moved the HBIOS internal stack back to high memory. There was
nothing actually wrong with the previous implementation, but I think it was
more complexity than warranted. This may improve the chances of an SBCv1
running smoothly.

If you get a chance to play with it, let me know how it goes. I am very
close to declaring v2.5 finished and releasing it as the official RomWBW
implementation.

Thanks!

Wayne

On Monday, May 27, 2013 9:49:35 PM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Well, the fact that earlier BIOS' are all working fine makes me think that
> the Hazeltine terminal issue is really a second order effect. Personally,
> I find the failure to complete the RAM DISK formatting a very telling
> indicator that some kind of code corruption has occurred. If code
> corruption is occurring, the symptoms will be almost random.
>
> One of the major differences in the v2.X RomWBW line is that it copies all
> driver code from ROM to *bank switched* RAM. If at any point the driver
> code in RAM bank 0 is corrupted, things will get very flaky very fast.
> UART initialization is performed *after* the code is copied to bank
> switched RAM. If the copy operation does not have 100% integrity, I could
> imagine that the UART initialization is not right or the UART driver has
> been corrupted in some other way. The fact that you can get further with
> v2.1.1 vs 2.5 could simply be due to the location in memory where the UART
> driver happens to land in the two different versions.
>
> I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact the integrity
> of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. The fact that some folks seem
> to be having success with the SBCv1 and RomWBW v2.5 definitely seems to
> point to a random issue of some kind. Today, I was able to push my SBCv2
> all the way to 20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a
> separate board connected on the backplane). So, I don't think there is a
> generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. If the core problem does
> turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not sure I have any good
> options to resolve it.
>
> If anyone has any further thoughts on things I could do to pin this down,
> let me know. Even if I cannot provide a complete solution, I would at
> least like to know the true nature of the issue. Guess that may not be
> possible.
>
> Regarding the RS-232 cable setup discussion, I also use a simple null
> modem adapter with excellent results. In addition, I have a cheap little
> 9-pin RS-232 tester that can be placed inline. This allows me to know for
> certain what signals are asserted and not guess about it. I have found it
> invaluable. I got mine on eBay and it looks exactly like item
> #150717028694. However, I think I paid a lot less than $45 for mine.
>
> Thanks for everyone's help with this!
>
> Wayne
>

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brizza
2013-06-10 13:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,
Thanks. I'll try the new ROM and report back soon.
Cheers,
Nik

On Monday, June 10, 2013 11:48:53 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:

> Hi Nik,
>
> Not sure if you have made any progress or not. Wanted to mention that I
> posted the latest beta version of RomWBW v2.5 a few minutes ago. There are
> a couple changes in there that may help stabilize things for you:
>
> 1. Fairly robust UART chip detection logic. I have successfully
> tested the code and it accurate identifies 16450, 16550, 16550A, 16550C,
> 16650, and 16750. I am pretty sure it will identify an older 8250 as well,
> but do not have one to confirm it.
> 2. Moved the HBIOS internal stack back to high memory. There was
> nothing actually wrong with the previous implementation, but I think it was
> more complexity than warranted. This may improve the chances of an SBCv1
> running smoothly.
>
> If you get a chance to play with it, let me know how it goes. I am very
> close to declaring v2.5 finished and releasing it as the official RomWBW
> implementation.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wayne
>
> On Monday, May 27, 2013 9:49:35 PM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Well, the fact that earlier BIOS' are all working fine makes me think
>> that the Hazeltine terminal issue is really a second order effect.
>> Personally, I find the failure to complete the RAM DISK formatting a very
>> telling indicator that some kind of code corruption has occurred. If code
>> corruption is occurring, the symptoms will be almost random.
>>
>> One of the major differences in the v2.X RomWBW line is that it copies
>> all driver code from ROM to *bank switched* RAM. If at any point the
>> driver code in RAM bank 0 is corrupted, things will get very flaky very
>> fast. UART initialization is performed *after* the code is copied to
>> bank switched RAM. If the copy operation does not have 100% integrity, I
>> could imagine that the UART initialization is not right or the UART driver
>> has been corrupted in some other way. The fact that you can get further
>> with v2.1.1 vs 2.5 could simply be due to the location in memory where the
>> UART driver happens to land in the two different versions.
>>
>> I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact the integrity
>> of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. The fact that some folks seem
>> to be having success with the SBCv1 and RomWBW v2.5 definitely seems to
>> point to a random issue of some kind. Today, I was able to push my SBCv2
>> all the way to 20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a
>> separate board connected on the backplane). So, I don't think there is a
>> generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. If the core problem does
>> turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not sure I have any good
>> options to resolve it.
>>
>> If anyone has any further thoughts on things I could do to pin this down,
>> let me know. Even if I cannot provide a complete solution, I would at
>> least like to know the true nature of the issue. Guess that may not be
>> possible.
>>
>> Regarding the RS-232 cable setup discussion, I also use a simple null
>> modem adapter with excellent results. In addition, I have a cheap little
>> 9-pin RS-232 tester that can be placed inline. This allows me to know for
>> certain what signals are asserted and not guess about it. I have found it
>> invaluable. I got mine on eBay and it looks exactly like item
>> #150717028694. However, I think I paid a lot less than $45 for mine.
>>
>> Thanks for everyone's help with this!
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>

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brizza
2013-06-11 12:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wayne,

Thanks. I had a chance to do some testing tonight.
The 8250 chip works fine :-) The keyboard is responding on the Hazeltine
and i'm able to get into the monitor program and do things. My SBC v1 is
still locking up when formatting ram but with CLRRAMDISK disabled in the
source i can get to the CPM prompt and do a directory listing, change
drives but that's about it. The termtype program seemed to work but the
other programs lock up. I'm still working on getting my SBC v2 working,
something funky happening there also :-/.

Cheers,
Nik



On Monday, June 10, 2013 11:48:53 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
> Not sure if you have made any progress or not. Wanted to mention that I
> posted the latest beta version of RomWBW v2.5 a few minutes ago. There are
> a couple changes in there that may help stabilize things for you:
>
> 1. Fairly robust UART chip detection logic. I have successfully
> tested the code and it accurate identifies 16450, 16550, 16550A, 16550C,
> 16650, and 16750. I am pretty sure it will identify an older 8250 as well,
> but do not have one to confirm it.
> 2. Moved the HBIOS internal stack back to high memory. There was
> nothing actually wrong with the previous implementation, but I think it was
> more complexity than warranted. This may improve the chances of an SBCv1
> running smoothly.
>
> If you get a chance to play with it, let me know how it goes. I am very
> close to declaring v2.5 finished and releasing it as the official RomWBW
> implementation.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wayne
>
> On Monday, May 27, 2013 9:49:35 PM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Well, the fact that earlier BIOS' are all working fine makes me think
>> that the Hazeltine terminal issue is really a second order effect.
>> Personally, I find the failure to complete the RAM DISK formatting a very
>> telling indicator that some kind of code corruption has occurred. If code
>> corruption is occurring, the symptoms will be almost random.
>>
>> One of the major differences in the v2.X RomWBW line is that it copies
>> all driver code from ROM to *bank switched* RAM. If at any point the
>> driver code in RAM bank 0 is corrupted, things will get very flaky very
>> fast. UART initialization is performed *after* the code is copied to
>> bank switched RAM. If the copy operation does not have 100% integrity, I
>> could imagine that the UART initialization is not right or the UART driver
>> has been corrupted in some other way. The fact that you can get further
>> with v2.1.1 vs 2.5 could simply be due to the location in memory where the
>> UART driver happens to land in the two different versions.
>>
>> I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact the integrity
>> of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. The fact that some folks seem
>> to be having success with the SBCv1 and RomWBW v2.5 definitely seems to
>> point to a random issue of some kind. Today, I was able to push my SBCv2
>> all the way to 20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a
>> separate board connected on the backplane). So, I don't think there is a
>> generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. If the core problem does
>> turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not sure I have any good
>> options to resolve it.
>>
>> If anyone has any further thoughts on things I could do to pin this down,
>> let me know. Even if I cannot provide a complete solution, I would at
>> least like to know the true nature of the issue. Guess that may not be
>> possible.
>>
>> Regarding the RS-232 cable setup discussion, I also use a simple null
>> modem adapter with excellent results. In addition, I have a cheap little
>> 9-pin RS-232 tester that can be placed inline. This allows me to know for
>> certain what signals are asserted and not guess about it. I have found it
>> invaluable. I got mine on eBay and it looks exactly like item
>> #150717028694. However, I think I paid a lot less than $45 for mine.
>>
>> Thanks for everyone's help with this!
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-06-11 14:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Nik,

That is all good. Nice to know that the 8250 chip detection logic is
working.

Based on how things changed with the latest ROM, I am now pretty convinced
that the remaining issues are symptoms of the SBCv1 memory glitch mentioned
in this thread. Not sure I can do much about that. Hopefully, you can
make some progress with your SBCv2.

Thanks!

Wayne

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:02:30 AM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
>
> Thanks. I had a chance to do some testing tonight.
> The 8250 chip works fine :-) The keyboard is responding on the Hazeltine
> and i'm able to get into the monitor program and do things. My SBC v1 is
> still locking up when formatting ram but with CLRRAMDISK disabled in the
> source i can get to the CPM prompt and do a directory listing, change
> drives but that's about it. The termtype program seemed to work but the
> other programs lock up. I'm still working on getting my SBC v2 working,
> something funky happening there also :-/.
>
> Cheers,
> Nik
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 10, 2013 11:48:53 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> Not sure if you have made any progress or not. Wanted to mention that I
>> posted the latest beta version of RomWBW v2.5 a few minutes ago. There are
>> a couple changes in there that may help stabilize things for you:
>>
>> 1. Fairly robust UART chip detection logic. I have successfully
>> tested the code and it accurate identifies 16450, 16550, 16550A, 16550C,
>> 16650, and 16750. I am pretty sure it will identify an older 8250 as well,
>> but do not have one to confirm it.
>> 2. Moved the HBIOS internal stack back to high memory. There was
>> nothing actually wrong with the previous implementation, but I think it was
>> more complexity than warranted. This may improve the chances of an SBCv1
>> running smoothly.
>>
>> If you get a chance to play with it, let me know how it goes. I am very
>> close to declaring v2.5 finished and releasing it as the official RomWBW
>> implementation.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On Monday, May 27, 2013 9:49:35 PM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Well, the fact that earlier BIOS' are all working fine makes me think
>>> that the Hazeltine terminal issue is really a second order effect.
>>> Personally, I find the failure to complete the RAM DISK formatting a very
>>> telling indicator that some kind of code corruption has occurred. If code
>>> corruption is occurring, the symptoms will be almost random.
>>>
>>> One of the major differences in the v2.X RomWBW line is that it copies
>>> all driver code from ROM to *bank switched* RAM. If at any point the
>>> driver code in RAM bank 0 is corrupted, things will get very flaky very
>>> fast. UART initialization is performed *after* the code is copied to
>>> bank switched RAM. If the copy operation does not have 100% integrity, I
>>> could imagine that the UART initialization is not right or the UART driver
>>> has been corrupted in some other way. The fact that you can get further
>>> with v2.1.1 vs 2.5 could simply be due to the location in memory where the
>>> UART driver happens to land in the two different versions.
>>>
>>> I am now wondering if the SBCv1 race condition could impact the
>>> integrity of the code copied into the RAM driver bank. The fact that some
>>> folks seem to be having success with the SBCv1 and RomWBW v2.5 definitely
>>> seems to point to a random issue of some kind. Today, I was able to push my
>>> SBCv2 all the way to 20MHz without a problem (including PPIDE access to a
>>> separate board connected on the backplane). So, I don't think there is a
>>> generic issue with speed related to RomWBW v2.5. If the core problem does
>>> turn out to be the SBCv1 race condition, I'm not sure I have any good
>>> options to resolve it.
>>>
>>> If anyone has any further thoughts on things I could do to pin this
>>> down, let me know. Even if I cannot provide a complete solution, I would
>>> at least like to know the true nature of the issue. Guess that may not be
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Regarding the RS-232 cable setup discussion, I also use a simple null
>>> modem adapter with excellent results. In addition, I have a cheap little
>>> 9-pin RS-232 tester that can be placed inline. This allows me to know for
>>> certain what signals are asserted and not guess about it. I have found it
>>> invaluable. I got mine on eBay and it looks exactly like item
>>> #150717028694. However, I think I paid a lot less than $45 for mine.
>>>
>>> Thanks for everyone's help with this!
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>

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John Coffman
2013-05-26 16:42:16 UTC
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Wayne,<br>
<br>
Looking at the source code for 2.1.1, I note that the 'scratch
register' is tested (SIO_SCR).&nbsp; Neither an 8250 nor 8250B has a
scratch register, so I am not quite sure what the results will be:&nbsp;
SIO_EFR is set, but I do not see what the value of SIO_EFR is.&nbsp; It
is not defined anywhere I can find.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/25/2013 10:36 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:bb31b826-7850-44ac-8548-58d24ebd8079-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This is interesting. Starting at RomWBW v2.0, bank switching was implemented. There may be a problem with the bank switching implementation in RomWBW on the original SBC.

Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?

Thanks,

Wayne

</pre>
</blockquote>
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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 18:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,

Thanks for taking a look at the code, I always appreciate some additional
eyes on this stuff.

I did a fair amount of work a while back on the auto flow control feature.
Unrelated, but I do currently believe that auto flow control is broken in
the DIP package of the TL16C550C. As I looked at alternatives, I found
that newer UARTs actually manage auto flow control using two different
register conventions. They introduce a new register called the EFR (a good
reference to this is the TL16C754C, see this data sheet:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl16c754c.pdf). The bizarre code you are
seeing is a minimal approach to trying to determine if the chip is using an
EFR register to control auto flow control or the original technique (using
MCR). I have attached a PDF copy of the partially complete spreadsheet I
have been using to keep track of the FIFO / AFC stuff for the chip variants
I was aware of. I will add the info you have provided to it eventually. I
will also take a look at the chip detection code in Sergey's XT BIOS.

With all of this said, you will see that the only way the EFR detection
logic is included is if the "UARTAFC" build configuration variable is set
to true. In all of the pre-built ROMs and the configuration that Nik is
using, it is not enabled. Regardless, based on your points about the
scratch register, I should update my chip detection logic. I don't think
this is the source of the issue Nik is having though.

Thanks!

Wayne

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:42:16 AM UTC-7, John Coffman wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
> Looking at the source code for 2.1.1, I note that the 'scratch register'
> is tested (SIO_SCR). Neither an 8250 nor 8250B has a scratch register, so
> I am not quite sure what the results will be: SIO_EFR is set, but I do not
> see what the value of SIO_EFR is. It is not defined anywhere I can find.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
> On 05/25/2013 10:36 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> This is interesting. Starting at RomWBW v2.0, bank switching was implemented. There may be a problem with the bank switching implementation in RomWBW on the original SBC.
>
> Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
>
>

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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 18:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Forgot to attached the PDF I referred so. Attaching it here.

--Wayne

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for taking a look at the code, I always appreciate some additional
> eyes on this stuff.
>
> I did a fair amount of work a while back on the auto flow control feature.
> Unrelated, but I do currently believe that auto flow control is broken in
> the DIP package of the TL16C550C. As I looked at alternatives, I found
> that newer UARTs actually manage auto flow control using two different
> register conventions. They introduce a new register called the EFR (a good
> reference to this is the TL16C754C, see this data sheet:
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl16c754c.pdf). The bizarre code you
> are seeing is a minimal approach to trying to determine if the chip is
> using an EFR register to control auto flow control or the original
> technique (using MCR). I have attached a PDF copy of the partially
> complete spreadsheet I have been using to keep track of the FIFO / AFC
> stuff for the chip variants I was aware of. I will add the info you have
> provided to it eventually. I will also take a look at the chip detection
> code in Sergey's XT BIOS.
>
> With all of this said, you will see that the only way the EFR detection
> logic is included is if the "UARTAFC" build configuration variable is set
> to true. In all of the pre-built ROMs and the configuration that Nik is
> using, it is not enabled. Regardless, based on your points about the
> scratch register, I should update my chip detection logic. I don't think
> this is the source of the issue Nik is having though.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wayne
>
> On Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:42:16 AM UTC-7, John Coffman wrote:
>>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> Looking at the source code for 2.1.1, I note that the 'scratch register'
>> is tested (SIO_SCR). Neither an 8250 nor 8250B has a scratch register, so
>> I am not quite sure what the results will be: SIO_EFR is set, but I do not
>> see what the value of SIO_EFR is. It is not defined anywhere I can find.
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/25/2013 10:36 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> This is interesting. Starting at RomWBW v2.0, bank switching was implemented. There may be a problem with the bank switching implementation in RomWBW on the original SBC.
>>
>> Has anyone else used v2.0 or above of RomWBW on an original SBC?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>

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John Coffman
2013-05-26 06:48:59 UTC
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Wayne,<br>
<br>
Back when I built my first N8VEM board, the SBC v1, I was itchy to
get it running; but the 16C550 UART had not arrived yet, so I pried
an 8250A out of an old S-100 board.&nbsp; With the BIOS's available at
that time, it worked fine.&nbsp; I think the BIOS was from Dan Werner,
one which later evolved into the JCxxx series of interrupt driven
4Mhz Z80, 1.44M floppy, BIOS's for the DISKIO v1 boards.<br>
<br>
I know of two flavors of 8250 UART chips:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8250A&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; has storage register at address&nbsp; (base+7)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8250B&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; storage register missing<br>
<br>
The later series chips were:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16450&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NMOS copy of 8250A<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16550&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ditto plus 16 byte FIFO<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16C450&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; CMOS copy of 8250A<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16C550&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ditto plus 16 byte FIFO<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; later revisions add the RTS/CTS auto flow-control
(e.g., 16C550C)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16C750&nbsp; --&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FIFO expanded to 64 bytes, auto flow-control<br>
<br>
AFAIK, no N8VEM BIOS has ever used the storage register at (base+7).<br>
<br>
So, as long as the auto flow-control is not used I would expect an
8250 to work just fine.&nbsp; I think it will just ignore the enable bit
settings for the FIFO.<br>
<br>
The SBC-188 video BIOS by Sergey, "int10ser.asm," contains good
UART-type determination code.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/25/2013 08:05 PM, Wayne Warthen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:4a4fe691-23e6-4f1d-97cb-b751fc80c080-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi Nik,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Excellent information.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am very relieved to hear that RomWBW is working with the PC
terminal emulator. &nbsp;I was beginning to think that the BIOS has
simply crashed/locked up on your hardware after issuing the
prompt. &nbsp;However, the fact that it is working with your PC
terminal emulator indicates that it is indeed something related
to the serial port configuration combined with the Hazeltine
terminal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From your answers, there are two obvious differences in your
hardware versus my testing environment:</div>
<div>
<div>
<ol>
<li><span style="line-height: normal;">You are using an 8250
UART. &nbsp;I am using a 16C550C.</span></li>
<li><span style="line-height: normal;">You are using an
original SBC. &nbsp;I am using an SBCv2.</span></li>
</ol>
<div>This gives me a little more to go on. &nbsp;I will start
investigating the differences above. &nbsp;There is a little bit
more UART chip version discovery logic in the new ROM. &nbsp;That
is where I will look first.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you can try a 15C550C (or similar) UART, that would be
interesting.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wayne</div>
<div><br>
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 5:54:32 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Wayne,
<div>No worries, Happy to do the testing.</div>
<div>To answer your questions below;</div>
<div>I'm using the original SBC , although i've built the
SBCv2 but have'nt got it working yet.</div>
<div>The boot message that appears does go all the way to the
===&gt; prompt.</div>
<div>Using an 8250 UART and the WBW bios works fine with the
PC terminal emulator, I think i have a 16550 UART somewhere
to try.note i disabled FIFO in the config file.&nbsp;</div>
<div>The setup i have at the moment is the sbc and diskio3
only plugged into a smaller backplane but i can test the SBC
board on it's own.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Appreciate your help with this !</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Nik</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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Wayne Warthen
2013-05-26 14:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Thanks John. I will try to source some of the old variants.

Wayne
John Coffman
2013-05-25 14:43:16 UTC
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Well, Nik, sounds like the RS-232 control signals are not the issue.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/24/2013 09:45 PM, brizza wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:fe50b402-3961-4bc9-bdb6-7ffcdd969e7e-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">Hi Wayne,
<div>Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original
default rom bios and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also
works with the Hazeltine.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Nik<br>
<br>
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Nik,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a
ROM. &nbsp;It all worked fine for me at 9600 baud. &nbsp;I also
confirmed that the current ROM code is indeed still setting
RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter depending on your
hardware configuration).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am
a bit confused. &nbsp;I want to make sure I understand the issue
correctly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am under the impression that you are seeing characters
on the screen when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot
messages). &nbsp;However, when you type on the keyboard, nothing
shows up on the screen. &nbsp;Is that right?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do
with the terminal type setting. &nbsp;John is probably on the
right track regarding making sure all the RS-232 signals
required by the terminal are asserted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wayne<br>
<br>
On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Wayne,
<div>Thanks. Here is the config file.</div>
<div>Nik</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne
Warthen wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Nik,
<p>Very odd. &nbsp;Will you please send me the modified
config file you are using?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Wayne</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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brizza
2013-05-26 00:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
Thanks. A handy tester to have anyway. I've ordered one from a local
supplier.

Regards,
Nik


On Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:43:16 AM UTC+10, John Coffman wrote:
>
> Well, Nik, sounds like the RS-232 control signals are not the issue.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/24/2013 09:45 PM, brizza wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne,
> Yes your impression is correct. I have Andrews original default rom bios
> and it works fine. David Giles' rom Bios also works with the Hazeltine.
> Thanks,
> Nik
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:38:52 PM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> I reviewed the config file and even used it to build a ROM. It all
>> worked fine for me at 9600 baud. I also confirmed that the current ROM
>> code is indeed still setting RTS and DTR (which may or may not matter
>> depending on your hardware configuration).
>>
>> I have seen the discussion about the terminal type and am a bit
>> confused. I want to make sure I understand the issue correctly.
>>
>> I am under the impression that you are seeing characters on the screen
>> when you boot on the new ROM (the normal boot messages). However, when you
>> type on the keyboard, nothing shows up on the screen. Is that right?
>>
>> If the above is correct, this issue has nothing to do with the terminal
>> type setting. John is probably on the right track regarding making sure
>> all the RS-232 signals required by the terminal are asserted.
>>
>> I assume you do not have the old ROM to try, right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:09:08 PM UTC-7, brizza wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wayne,
>>> Thanks. Here is the config file.
>>> Nik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:06:59 AM UTC+10, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nik,
>>>>
>>>> Very odd. Will you please send me the modified config file you are
>>>> using?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
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Douglas Goodall
2013-05-24 23:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Nik,

Generally speaking, it is not very hard to add new terminal types to the RomWBW
application support. Only two escape sequences are required, one to clear the screen,
and another to position the cursor.

Once those two escapes are coded into the system, all the full screen apps, such as "map"
and others will work as expected.

If you supply the escape codes needed for the hazeltine support, I will interface with Wayne
about adding support for them.

Douglas Goodall

On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest setting for this terminal.
> Nik
>
> --
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---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall

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brizza
2013-05-25 03:07:01 UTC
Permalink
HI Douglas,
Sorry i missed your note earlier. I'm exactly sure what escape codes are
but in a quick search on the internet i found escape codes for the
hazeltine 1500. I'm guessing they will be the same as the Esprit which i
have. i cant find a reference to my model. Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Nik


On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:57:06 AM UTC+10, douglas_goodall wrote:
>
> Nik,
>
> Generally speaking, it is not very hard to add new terminal types to the
> RomWBW
> application support. Only two escape sequences are required, one to clear
> the screen,
> and another to position the cursor.
>
> Once those two escapes are coded into the system, all the full screen
> apps, such as "map"
> and others will work as expected.
>
> If you supply the escape codes needed for the hazeltine support, I will
> interface with Wayne
> about adding support for them.
>
> Douglas Goodall
>
> On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org <javascript:>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the
> keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all
> worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud
> rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal
> types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i
> could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest
> setting for this terminal.
> Nik
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
>
> ---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall
>
>

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Douglas Goodall
2013-05-25 04:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Nik,

I looked over the document, but it didn't really have what I needed.

I am looking for something along the lines of
<esc> <clrscr-cmd>
or
<esc> <crtpos-cmd> <line> <column>.

Do you have anything like that.

I guess I can google for esprit escape sequences and see if that get's em.

Douglas


On May 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> HI Douglas,
> Sorry i missed your note earlier. I'm exactly sure what escape codes are but in a quick search on the internet i found escape codes for the hazeltine 1500. I'm guessing they will be the same as the Esprit which i have. i cant find a reference to my model. Hope this helps.
> Thanks,
> Nik
>
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:57:06 AM UTC+10, douglas_goodall wrote:
> Nik,
>
> Generally speaking, it is not very hard to add new terminal types to the RomWBW
> application support. Only two escape sequences are required, one to clear the screen,
> and another to position the cursor.
>
> Once those two escapes are coded into the system, all the full screen apps, such as "map"
> and others will work as expected.
>
> If you supply the escape codes needed for the hazeltine support, I will interface with Wayne
> about adding support for them.
>
> Douglas Goodall
>
> On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest setting for this terminal.
>> Nik
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to n8vem+un...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/***@public.gmane.org
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem?hl=en.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>
> ---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
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>
>
> <h1500esccodes.txt>

---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall

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Nik Brisevac
2013-05-25 05:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Douglas,
Thanks for your help. Now that i know what the codes look I'll have a look around the web aswell. I could'nt open the PDF you attached to your other post.
Regards,
Nik
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Goodall
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 15923] custom rom for hazeltine terminal


Nik,


I looked over the document, but it didn't really have what I needed.


I am looking for something along the lines of
<esc> <clrscr-cmd>
or
<esc> <crtpos-cmd> <line> <column>.


Do you have anything like that.


I guess I can google for esprit escape sequences and see if that get's em.


Douglas




On May 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


HI Douglas,
Sorry i missed your note earlier. I'm exactly sure what escape codes are but in a quick search on the internet i found escape codes for the hazeltine 1500. I'm guessing they will be the same as the Esprit which i have. i cant find a reference to my model. Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Nik


On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:57:06 AM UTC+10, douglas_goodall wrote:
Nik,


Generally speaking, it is not very hard to add new terminal types to the RomWBW
application support. Only two escape sequences are required, one to clear the screen,
and another to position the cursor.


Once those two escapes are coded into the system, all the full screen apps, such as "map"
and others will work as expected.


If you supply the escape codes needed for the hazeltine support, I will interface with Wayne
about adding support for them.


Douglas Goodall


On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Hi,
i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest setting for this terminal.
Nik


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---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall




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<h1500esccodes.txt>


---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall



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Douglas Goodall
2013-05-25 04:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Nik,

I think this (section 6) has what I need. I will talk to Wayne about adding Hazeltine support.




Regards,

Douglas


On May 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> HI Douglas,
> Sorry i missed your note earlier. I'm exactly sure what escape codes are but in a quick search on the internet i found escape codes for the hazeltine 1500. I'm guessing they will be the same as the Esprit which i have. i cant find a reference to my model. Hope this helps.
> Thanks,
> Nik
>
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:57:06 AM UTC+10, douglas_goodall wrote:
> Nik,
>
> Generally speaking, it is not very hard to add new terminal types to the RomWBW
> application support. Only two escape sequences are required, one to clear the screen,
> and another to position the cursor.
>
> Once those two escapes are coded into the system, all the full screen apps, such as "map"
> and others will work as expected.
>
> If you supply the escape codes needed for the hazeltine support, I will interface with Wayne
> about adding support for them.
>
> Douglas Goodall
>
> On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbri...-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest setting for this terminal.
>> Nik
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to n8vem+un...-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/***@public.gmane.org
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>>
>>
>
> ---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
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>
>
> <h1500esccodes.txt>

---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall
Douglas Goodall
2013-05-25 00:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Nik,

The terminal types only affect which escape sequences are sent by the apps to support
full screen operation. They do not affect console input.

Douglas


On May 24, 2013, at 4:01 AM, brizza <nbrisevac-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> i'm building a custom rom with the current bios ,RomWBW v2.5, but the keyboard is not responding, video is fine. Odd since previous bios' all worked fine with this terminal. The only changes i need to make is the baud rate back to 9600 and floppy drive to FDM120. I have tried all 3 terminal types, ANSI,TTY and WYSE but none have keyboard reponse. Anything else i could try. The BAUD rate needs to stay at 9600 since that is the highest setting for this terminal.
> Nik
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
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>

---http://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasgoodall

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