[N8VEM: 19542] n8vem homepage requiring login?

Discussion:

[N8VEM: 19542] n8vem homepage requiring login?

John Snowdon

2015-04-24 22:14:27 UTC

Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to review the
parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).

Has this changed in the last few days?

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Sergey

2015-04-24 23:05:49 UTC

I noticed the same thing. And apparently now it is not possible to access
to the Wiki without logging in first, which is not good...

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 3:14:27 PM UTC-7, John Snowdon wrote:
>
> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to review the
> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
>
> Has this changed in the last few days?
>

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John Coffman

2015-04-25 04:18:51 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
John,<br>
<br>
I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also.  I guess
they want to track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages.  It
looks like it is easy enough to create an account, and once logged
in, you can stay logged in for a week or so.  At least that is how
long a login used to last.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:3901a488-2a98-4dc8-8ae2-***@googlegroups.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Just tried to get on
to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/">http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/</a> today to review the parts list
for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
homepage).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Has this changed in the last few days?</div>
</div>
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</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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William R Sowerbutts

2015-04-25 13:38:35 UTC

That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely stop 95%
of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered to
create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being able to
index these pages.

I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional change and
to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change to
make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.

Will

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>John,
>
>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they want to
>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it is easy
>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged in for a
>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
>
>--John
>
>
>
>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
>
> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to review the
> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
>
> Has this changed in the last few days?
> --
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> "N8VEM" group.
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>
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_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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William R Sowerbutts

2015-04-25 23:25:30 UTC

PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security

Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this change?

Thanks

Will

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
>That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely stop 95%
>of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered to
>create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being able to
>index these pages.
>
>I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional change and
>to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change to
>make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.
>
>Will
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>>John,
>>
>>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they want to
>>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it is easy
>>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged in for a
>>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
>>
>>--John
>>
>>
>>
>>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
>>
>> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to review the
>> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
>> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
>>
>> Has this changed in the last few days?
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
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>>
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>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
>"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>
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>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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J. Alexander Jacocks

2015-05-11 15:09:12 UTC

This appears to be still a problem. Has this not been fixed, yet? Who
else, other than Andrew, has admin privileges?

Thanks!
- Alex

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:25 PM, William R Sowerbutts <***@sowerbutts.com>
wrote:

> PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security
>
> Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this
> change?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
> >That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely stop
> 95%
> >of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered to
> >create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being
> able to
> >index these pages.
> >
> >I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional change
> and
> >to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change to
> >make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.
> >
> >Will
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
> >>John,
> >>
> >>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they
> want to
> >>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it
> is easy
> >>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged in
> for a
> >>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
> >>
> >>--John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
> >>
> >> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to
> review the
> >> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
> >> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
> homepage).
> >>
> >> Has this changed in the last few days?
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "N8VEM" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an
> >> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
> >> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >>
> >>--
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> >>"N8VEM" group.
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> an email
> >>to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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> >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> >William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
> >"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
> > main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
> > (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
> >
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
> "Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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J. Alexander Jacocks

2015-05-14 11:46:14 UTC

All,

If nobody can change this, maybe it's time that we think about moving to a
different project site? I'm not sure if anyone currently working on the
project has admin, at this point.

Thanks!
- Alex

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> This appears to be still a problem. Has this not been fixed, yet? Who
> else, other than Andrew, has admin privileges?
>
> Thanks!
> - Alex
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:25 PM, William R Sowerbutts <***@sowerbutts.com
> > wrote:
>
>> PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
>> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security
>>
>> Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this
>> change?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
>> >That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely stop
>> 95%
>> >of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered to
>> >create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being
>> able to
>> >index these pages.
>> >
>> >I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional
>> change and
>> >to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change
>> to
>> >make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.
>> >
>> >Will
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>> >>John,
>> >>
>> >>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they
>> want to
>> >>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it
>> is easy
>> >>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged in
>> for a
>> >>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
>> >>
>> >>--John
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to
>> review the
>> >> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
>> >> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
>> homepage).
>> >>
>> >> Has this changed in the last few days?
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "N8VEM" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an
>> >> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >>"N8VEM" group.
>> >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email
>> >>to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> >>To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________________
>> >William R Sowerbutts
>> ***@sowerbutts.com
>> >"Carpe post meridiem"
>> http://sowerbutts.com
>> > main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>> > (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>> >
>> >--
>> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "N8VEM" group.
>> >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> >To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________
>> William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
>> "Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
>> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Paul Birkel

2015-05-14 11:50:31 UTC

Suggest contacting Andrew Lynch directly (out-of-band). He's probably not
paying much attention to the threads (or site management), but he clearly
is responding to direct email-requests for boards from new-folks.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:46 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
> If nobody can change this, maybe it's time that we think about moving to a
> different project site? I'm not sure if anyone currently working on the
> project has admin, at this point.
>
> Thanks!
> - Alex
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <***@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> This appears to be still a problem. Has this not been fixed, yet? Who
>> else, other than Andrew, has admin privileges?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> - Alex
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:25 PM, William R Sowerbutts <
>> ***@sowerbutts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
>>> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security
>>>
>>> Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this
>>> change?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
>>> >That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely
>>> stop 95%
>>> >of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered
>>> to
>>> >create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being
>>> able to
>>> >index these pages.
>>> >
>>> >I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional
>>> change and
>>> >to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change
>>> to
>>> >make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.
>>> >
>>> >Will
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>>> >>John,
>>> >>
>>> >>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they
>>> want to
>>> >>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it
>>> is easy
>>> >>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged
>>> in for a
>>> >>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
>>> >>
>>> >>--John
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to
>>> review the
>>> >> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
>>> >> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
>>> homepage).
>>> >>
>>> >> Has this changed in the last few days?
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> >> "N8VEM" group.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an
>>> >> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> >>"N8VEM" group.
>>> >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email
>>> >>to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>>> >>To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>>> >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>>> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> >
>>>
>>> >_________________________________________________________________________
>>> >William R Sowerbutts
>>> ***@sowerbutts.com
>>> >"Carpe post meridiem"
>>> http://sowerbutts.com
>>> > main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>>> > (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "N8VEM" group.
>>> >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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>>> >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________________
>>> William R Sowerbutts
>>> ***@sowerbutts.com
>>> "Carpe post meridiem"
>>> http://sowerbutts.com
>>> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>>> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>>>
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William R Sowerbutts

2015-05-14 13:41:28 UTC

I wonder if he would be prepared to hand the administration duties for the
Wiki and the Google group over to someone else who has more time available.

Will

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 07:50:31AM -0400, Paul Birkel wrote:
>Suggest contacting Andrew Lynch directly (out-of-band). He's probably not
>paying much attention to the threads (or site management), but he clearly
>is responding to direct email-requests for boards from new-folks.
>
>On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:46 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <***@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> If nobody can change this, maybe it's time that we think about moving to a
>> different project site? I'm not sure if anyone currently working on the
>> project has admin, at this point.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> - Alex
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <***@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> This appears to be still a problem. Has this not been fixed, yet? Who
>>> else, other than Andrew, has admin privileges?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> - Alex
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:25 PM, William R Sowerbutts <
>>> ***@sowerbutts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
>>>> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security
>>>>
>>>> Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this
>>>> change?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
>>>> >That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely
>>>> stop 95%
>>>> >of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered
>>>> to
>>>> >create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being
>>>> able to
>>>> >index these pages.
>>>> >
>>>> >I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional
>>>> change and
>>>> >to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change
>>>> to
>>>> >make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.
>>>> >
>>>> >Will
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
>>>> >>John,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they
>>>> want to
>>>> >>track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it
>>>> is easy
>>>> >>enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged
>>>> in for a
>>>> >>week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>--John
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to
>>>> review the
>>>> >> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
>>>> >> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
>>>> homepage).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Has this changed in the last few days?
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> >> "N8VEM" group.
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an
>>>> >> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>--
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>>>> an email
>>>> >>to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>>>> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >_________________________________________________________________________
>>>> >William R Sowerbutts
>>>> ***@sowerbutts.com
>>>> >"Carpe post meridiem"
>>>> http://sowerbutts.com
>>>> > main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>>>> > (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>>>> >
>>>> >--
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>>>> >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>>>> >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________________
>>>> William R Sowerbutts
>>>> ***@sowerbutts.com
>>>> "Carpe post meridiem"
>>>> http://sowerbutts.com
>>>> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
>>>> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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John Coffman

2015-05-14 15:51:54 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
All,<br>
<br>
I have written to Andrew at the 3 e-mail addresses I have for him,
but I have not heard anything back from him.  I will copy him on
this e-mail BCC.<br>
<br>
Andrew,<br>
<br>
The PBWORKS wiki now requires a login, making it non-public to
search engines.  May we ask that the Administrator change its access
rights to public; or, turn over the duties of Administrator to
someone else?<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
On 05/14/2015 06:41 AM, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@sowerbutts.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I wonder if he would be prepared to hand the administration duties for the
Wiki and the Google group over to someone else who has more time available.

Will

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 07:50:31AM -0400, Paul Birkel wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Suggest contacting Andrew Lynch directly (out-of-band). He's probably not
paying much attention to the threads (or site management), but he clearly
is responding to direct email-requests for boards from new-folks.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:46 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com"><***@gmail.com></a>
wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">All,

If nobody can change this, maybe it's time that we think about moving to a
different project site? I'm not sure if anyone currently working on the
project has admin, at this point.

Thanks!
- Alex

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This appears to be still a problem. Has this not been fixed, yet? Who
else, other than Andrew, has admin privileges?

Thanks!
- Alex

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:25 PM, William R Sowerbutts <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">PBWorks have pointed us to this page:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security">http://edumanual.pbworks.com/w/page/57902861/Workspace%20Security</a>

Could someone with Administrator rights to the Wiki please make this
change?

Thanks

Will

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 02:38:35PM +0100, William R Sowerbutts wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">That's a bit sad. Even a simple login barrier like this will likely
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">stop 95%
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of people from reading the pages on the wiki as they won't be bothered
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">create an account. It presumably also stops search engines from being
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">able to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">index these pages.

I've written to pbworks.com to find out if this is an intentional
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">change and
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to enquire if there is a setting the workspace administrator can change
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">make the site open to the public (and search engines) again.

Will

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 09:18:51PM -0700, John Coffman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">John,

I just tried it, and I find that I have to log in also. I guess they
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">want to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">track who is using the "pbworks.com" project pages. It looks like it
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">is easy
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">enough to create an account, and once logged in, you can stay logged
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">in for a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">week or so. At least that is how long a login used to last.

--John

On 04/24/2015 03:14 PM, John Snowdon wrote:

Just tried to get on to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/">http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/</a> today to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">review the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">homepage).
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Has this changed in the last few days?
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<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Carpe post meridiem"
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sowerbutts.com">http://sowerbutts.com</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
"Carpe post meridiem<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://sowerbutts.commain(){char*s=">"
http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s="</a>>#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@sowerbutts.com">***@sowerbutts.com</a>
"Carpe post meridiem<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://sowerbutts.commain(){char*s=">" http://sowerbutts.com
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AlecV

2015-06-01 15:18:54 UTC

I've opened a case at pbworks.com Support and got an answer:

==============
From: Support <***@pbwiki.com>
To: me
Subject: Your PBworks Support Inquiry [ ref:_00D708eKn._500701EBTEq:ref ]

Hello! Thanks for contacting PBworks Support and Services.

The workspace has been removed and the contents are no longer hosted by
PBworks.

Thanks,

The PBworks Support Team
http://docs.pbworks.com/
http://edumanual.pbworks.com/

>

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John Snowdon

2015-06-01 18:08:45 UTC

That sounds odd.

Does it mean that the N8VEM workspace is going to disappear, or just that
the public front page is now gone?

On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 4:18:55 PM UTC+1, AlecV wrote:
>
> I've opened a case at pbworks.com Support and got an answer:
>
> ==============
> From: Support <***@pbwiki.com <javascript:>>
> To: me
> Subject: Your PBworks Support Inquiry [ ref:_00D708eKn._500701EBTEq:ref ]
>
> Hello! Thanks for contacting PBworks Support and Services.
>
> The workspace has been removed and the contents are no longer hosted by
> PBworks.
>
> Thanks,
>
> The PBworks Support Team
> http://docs.pbworks.com/
> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/
>
>>

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Ian McLaughlin

2015-06-01 18:12:27 UTC

This is a little concerning. Does anyone have a backup of the site?

Have we considered moving to something a little less proprietary than PBwiki?

Ian

> On Jun 1, 2015, at 11:08 AM, John Snowdon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That sounds odd.
>
> Does it mean that the N8VEM workspace is going to disappear, or just that the public front page is now gone?
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 4:18:55 PM UTC+1, AlecV wrote:
> I've opened a case at pbworks.com <http://pbworks.com/> Support and got an answer:
>
> ==============
> From: Support <***@pbwiki.com <javascript:>>
> To: me
> Subject: Your PBworks Support Inquiry [ ref:_00D708eKn._500701EBTEq:ref ]
>
> Hello! Thanks for contacting PBworks Support and Services.
>
> The workspace has been removed and the contents are no longer hosted by PBworks.
>
> Thanks,
>
> The PBworks Support Team
> http://docs.pbworks.com/ <http://docs.pbworks.com/>
> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/ <http://edumanual.pbworks.com/>
>
>
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Richard Cini

2015-06-01 18:27:35 UTC

I logged in and it's there.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 1, 2015, at 2:12 PM, Ian McLaughlin <***@platinum.net> wrote:
>
> This is a little concerning. Does anyone have a backup of the site?
>
> Have we considered moving to something a little less proprietary than PBwiki?
>
> Ian
>
>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 11:08 AM, John Snowdon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds odd.
>>
>> Does it mean that the N8VEM workspace is going to disappear, or just that the public front page is now gone?
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 4:18:55 PM UTC+1, AlecV wrote:
>>> I've opened a case at pbworks.com Support and got an answer:
>>>
>>> ==============
>>> From: Support <***@pbwiki.com>
>>> To: me
>>> Subject: Your PBworks Support Inquiry [ ref:_00D708eKn._500701EBTEq:ref ]
>>>
>>> Hello! Thanks for contacting PBworks Support and Services.
>>>
>>> The workspace has been removed and the contents are no longer hosted by PBworks.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> The PBworks Support Team
>>> http://docs.pbworks.com/
>>> http://edumanual.pbworks.com/
>>
>>
>> --
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John Coffman

2015-06-01 19:49:55 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the
"commercial" nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and
sold.  The hobbyist nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep
hosting us.  But then the volume of data on the site exceeded "free"
hosting status.  Donations were solicited, PBworks was paid, and the
site remained, with a very generous disk quota.<br>
<br>
I am unaware of the current payment status for the site.  Andrew,
are you there???<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/01/2015 11:27 AM, Richard Cini wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:A8BC86FD-84EF-48D8-ABFE-***@verizon.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>I logged in and it's there. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 1, 2015, at 2:12 PM, Ian McLaughlin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:***@platinum.net">***@platinum.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
This is a little concerning.  Does anyone have a backup of the
site?
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Have we considered moving to something a little
less proprietary than PBwiki?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ian</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jun 1, 2015, at 11:08 AM, John Snowdon
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@gmail.com" class="">***@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">That sounds odd. 
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Does it mean that the N8VEM workspace
is going to disappear, or just that the public
front page is now gone?
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 4:18:55 PM UTC+1,
AlecV wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I've opened a case at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pbworks.com/" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow" class="">pbworks.com</a>
Support and got an answer:<br class="">
<br class="">
==============<br class="">
From: Support <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:" target="_blank"
gdf-obfuscated-mailto="RpyLpBZ-VcMJ"
rel="nofollow" class="">***@pbwiki.com</a>><br
class="">
To: me<br class="">
Subject: Your PBworks Support Inquiry [
ref:_00D708eKn._500701EBTEq:<wbr class="">ref
]<br class="">
<br class="">
Hello!  Thanks for contacting PBworks
Support and Services.<br class="">
<br class="">
The workspace has been removed and the
contents are no longer hosted by PBworks.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
<br class="">
The PBworks Support Team<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.pbworks.com/"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="">http://docs.pbworks.com/</a><br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://edumanual.pbworks.com/"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="">http://edumanual.pbworks.com/</a><br
class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"
class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""> </blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
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'Andrew Lynch' via N8VEM

2015-06-02 12:50:04 UTC

HiI am here but am unavailable for an extended period of time.
Andrew Lynch
From: John Coffman <***@gmail.com>
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19693] n8vem homepage requiring login?

There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the "commercial" nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and sold.Â The hobbyist nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep hosting us.Â But then the volume of data on the site exceeded "free" hosting status.Â Donations were solicited, PBworks was paid, and the site remained, with a very generous disk quota.

I am unaware of the current payment status for the site.Â Andrew, are you there???

--John

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Alan Hightower

2015-06-02 14:52:23 UTC

I can provide hosting if needed. Do you have any ballpark on the traffic
volume?

-Alan

On 2015-06-01 15:49, John Coffman wrote:

> There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the "commercial" nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and sold. The hobbyist nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep hosting us. But then the volume of data on the site exceeded "free" hosting status. Donations were solicited, PBworks was paid, and the site remained, with a very generous disk quota.
>
> I am unaware of the current payment status for the site. Andrew, are you there???
>
> --John

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Andrew Bingham

2015-06-09 03:44:30 UTC

It seems like there is only an "export" feature for certain versions of
their service, and the "export" feature is only available to Administrators
which probably means Andrew L. So it seems like it'd be difficult to get
any of our pages or files "out" of PBWiki without some of Andrew L's time
to figure out if our version of PBWorks supports "exports" and to do that
if it is possible.

And once we do "export", its not clear the file format is "open" so it
could be "imported" into a freely available wiki software....

As far as getting new hosting, the N8VEM name, is, I believe, Andrew L's
amateur radio callsign so we should probably get his okay before attempting
any relocation.

I'd gladly donate $5 each month (as I do for the Orbiter Simulator Forums)
to cover some hosting though.

Andrew B

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 7:45:42 AM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
> I can provide hosting if needed. Do you have any ballpark on the traffic
> volume?
>
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-06-01 15:49, John Coffman wrote:
>
> There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the "commercial"
> nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and sold. The hobbyist
> nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep hosting us. But then the
> volume of data on the site exceeded "free" hosting status. Donations were
> solicited, PBworks was paid, and the site remained, with a very generous
> disk quota.
>
> I am unaware of the current payment status for the site. Andrew, are you
> there???
>
> --John
>
>
>
>

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Alan Hightower

2015-06-18 15:23:15 UTC

Should a migration be in the future, what would it be too? As I said, I
can host the site free of charge up to a moderate amount of traffic
(~20GB/mo'ish). But moving away from PBWorks will require moving to a
more open CMS. So if it were migrated, we'd need 1 or 2 volunteers to
help with site administration. Preferably those with experience in some
sort of CMS and Linux/UNIX command line. Waiting patiently for a reply.

-Alan

PS. I wanted to get the latest 68030 files posted today by JC and the
hoops required to get site access (still waiting) are a bit turn off and
I'm an enthusiast!

On 2015-06-08 23:44, Andrew Bingham wrote:

> It seems like there is only an "export" feature for certain versions of their service, and the "export" feature is only available to Administrators which probably means Andrew L. So it seems like it'd be difficult to get any of our pages or files "out" of PBWiki without some of Andrew L's time to figure out if our version of PBWorks supports "exports" and to do that if it is possible.
>
> And once we do "export", its not clear the file format is "open" so it could be "imported" into a freely available wiki software....
>
> As far as getting new hosting, the N8VEM name, is, I believe, Andrew L's amateur radio callsign so we should probably get his okay before attempting any relocation.
>
> I'd gladly donate $5 each month (as I do for the Orbiter Simulator Forums) to cover some hosting though.
>
> Andrew B

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Alan Hightower

2015-06-19 03:49:57 UTC

Here's my standing offer. I registered n8vem.org. Yes, I realize this is
Andrew's radio call sign as well as part of the SBC interest-group name.
So make no mistake, I fully release any registration claim solely to
Andrew at his discretion - no strings attached. I will be happy to
either transfer the registration to him with no cost, cancel the
registration and let it expire, redirect the domain to an alternate
site, or keep hosting it for no cost as long as he or the group wants
(cert included).

If that's satisfactory, the next thing to do is choose a CMS. I suggest
Wordpress (it's not just a blog anymore). I offer no pros/cons other
than a) I'm familiar with it so I can support directly and b) if it's
good enough for Hack-A-Day.... I can support some web duties, but I have
a 60/hr a week day job and a 15/hr a week night/weekend job already. So
some help would be welcome.

Looking for input. I haven't emailed Andrew directly as I know he's
busy. But the community has grown into something fairly large with
outstanding contributions from others as well as him. And to keep
growing will require even more sweat equity.

-Alan

On 2015-06-18 11:23, Alan Hightower wrote:

> Should a migration be in the future, what would it be too? As I said, I can host the site free of charge up to a moderate amount of traffic (~20GB/mo'ish). But moving away from PBWorks will require moving to a more open CMS. So if it were migrated, we'd need 1 or 2 volunteers to help with site administration. Preferably those with experience in some sort of CMS and Linux/UNIX command line. Waiting patiently for a reply.
>
> -Alan
>
> PS. I wanted to get the latest 68030 files posted today by JC and the hoops required to get site access (still waiting) are a bit turn off and I'm an enthusiast!

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Ian McLaughlin

2015-06-19 04:09:21 UTC

Hi,

My suggestion would be MediaWiki (good enough for Wikipedia). I have a couple of my own info sites set up on this - www.vaxhaven.com <http://www.vaxhaven.com/> www.compukit.org <http://www.compukit.org/> wiki.ocarc.ca <http://wiki.ocarc.ca/>

Itâs similar in concept to PBwiki - anyone can create any sort of page hierarchy they want without having to know HTML or anything.

Easy to set up.

Just my $0.02.

Ian

> On Jun 18, 2015, at 8:49 PM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:
>
>
> Here's my standing offer. I registered n8vem.org. Yes, I realize this is Andrew's radio call sign as well as part of the SBC interest-group name. So make no mistake, I fully release any registration claim solely to Andrew at his discretion - no strings attached. I will be happy to either transfer the registration to him with no cost, cancel the registration and let it expire, redirect the domain to an alternate site, or keep hosting it for no cost as long as he or the group wants (cert included).
>
>
> If that's satisfactory, the next thing to do is choose a CMS. I suggest Wordpress (it's not just a blog anymore). I offer no pros/cons other than a) I'm familiar with it so I can support directly and b) if it's good enough for Hack-A-Day.... I can support some web duties, but I have a 60/hr a week day job and a 15/hr a week night/weekend job already. So some help would be welcome.
>
>
> Looking for input. I haven't emailed Andrew directly as I know he's busy. But the community has grown into something fairly large with outstanding contributions from others as well as him. And to keep growing will require even more sweat equity.
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
> On 2015-06-18 11:23, Alan Hightower wrote:
>
>>
>> Should a migration be in the future, what would it be too? As I said, I can host the site free of charge up to a moderate amount of traffic (~20GB/mo'ish). But moving away from PBWorks will require moving to a more open CMS. So if it were migrated, we'd need 1 or 2 volunteers to help with site administration. Preferably those with experience in some sort of CMS and Linux/UNIX command line. Waiting patiently for a reply.
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>> PS. I wanted to get the latest 68030 files posted today by JC and the hoops required to get site access (still waiting) are a bit turn off and I'm an enthusiast!
>>
> ---
>
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here <http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=46565DAA163611E580D2299F93ED0201>
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Joel Heikkila

2015-06-19 05:51:51 UTC

I second Mediawiki. The N8VEM family has been a collaborative project, so
a wiki is only natural. There are file hosting plugins for Mediawiki.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ian McLaughlin <***@platinum.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My suggestion would be MediaWiki (good enough for Wikipedia). I have a
> couple of my own info sites set up on this - www.vaxhaven.com
> www.compukit.org wiki.ocarc.ca
>
> Itâs similar in concept to PBwiki - anyone can create any sort of page
> hierarchy they want without having to know HTML or anything.
>
> Easy to set up.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Ian
>
> On Jun 18, 2015, at 8:49 PM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here's my standing offer. I registered n8vem.org. Yes, I realize this
> is Andrew's radio call sign as well as part of the SBC interest-group
> name. So make no mistake, I fully release any registration claim solely to
> Andrew at his discretion - no strings attached. I will be happy to either
> transfer the registration to him with no cost, cancel the registration and
> let it expire, redirect the domain to an alternate site, or keep hosting it
> for no cost as long as he or the group wants (cert included).
>
>
> If that's satisfactory, the next thing to do is choose a CMS. I suggest
> Wordpress (it's not just a blog anymore). I offer no pros/cons other than
> a) I'm familiar with it so I can support directly and b) if it's good
> enough for Hack-A-Day.... I can support some web duties, but I have a
> 60/hr a week day job and a 15/hr a week night/weekend job already. So some
> help would be welcome.
>
>
> Looking for input. I haven't emailed Andrew directly as I know he's
> busy. But the community has grown into something fairly large with
> outstanding contributions from others as well as him. And to keep growing
> will require even more sweat equity.
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
> On 2015-06-18 11:23, Alan Hightower wrote:
>
>
>
> Should a migration be in the future, what would it be too? As I said, I
> can host the site free of charge up to a moderate amount of traffic
> (~20GB/mo'ish). But moving away from PBWorks will require moving to a more
> open CMS. So if it were migrated, we'd need 1 or 2 volunteers to help with
> site administration. Preferably those with experience in some sort of CMS
> and Linux/UNIX command line. Waiting patiently for a reply.
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
> PS. I wanted to get the latest 68030 files posted today by JC and the
> hoops required to get site access (still waiting) are a bit turn off and
> I'm an enthusiast!
>
> ---
>
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here
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Paul Birkel

2015-06-19 10:30:11 UTC

I am concerned that we're proposing to do a lot of work, and create a
maintenance problem that requires sustainment that pretty much doesn't
exist today. All to solve the password-protected-site issue.

Which is a non-trivial issue, but before we leap IMO it's very important to
tally the cost and necessary commitments to sustaining the new model .. and
then weigh the benefits.

What are the (overt and hidden) costs both for the transition and for the
sustainment? What are the specific values that we are considering that
outweigh those costs? Is the effort and turmoil "worth it" -- both in the
short-run and in the long-run?

I have no personal experience in any of this, nor do I have the skills to
undertake it. But it looks non-trivial to me. I'd like to see a
risk-benefit analysis before anyone proceeds.

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary ...)

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Joel Heikkila <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I second Mediawiki. The N8VEM family has been a collaborative project, so
> a wiki is only natural. There are file hosting plugins for Mediawiki.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ian McLaughlin <***@platinum.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My suggestion would be MediaWiki (good enough for Wikipedia). I have a
>> couple of my own info sites set up on this - www.vaxhaven.com
>> www.compukit.org wiki.ocarc.ca
>>
>> Itâs similar in concept to PBwiki - anyone can create any sort of page
>> hierarchy they want without having to know HTML or anything.
>>
>> Easy to set up.
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2015, at 8:49 PM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's my standing offer. I registered n8vem.org. Yes, I realize this
>> is Andrew's radio call sign as well as part of the SBC interest-group
>> name. So make no mistake, I fully release any registration claim solely to
>> Andrew at his discretion - no strings attached. I will be happy to either
>> transfer the registration to him with no cost, cancel the registration and
>> let it expire, redirect the domain to an alternate site, or keep hosting it
>> for no cost as long as he or the group wants (cert included).
>>
>>
>> If that's satisfactory, the next thing to do is choose a CMS. I suggest
>> Wordpress (it's not just a blog anymore). I offer no pros/cons other than
>> a) I'm familiar with it so I can support directly and b) if it's good
>> enough for Hack-A-Day.... I can support some web duties, but I have a
>> 60/hr a week day job and a 15/hr a week night/weekend job already. So some
>> help would be welcome.
>>
>>
>> Looking for input. I haven't emailed Andrew directly as I know he's
>> busy. But the community has grown into something fairly large with
>> outstanding contributions from others as well as him. And to keep growing
>> will require even more sweat equity.
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-06-18 11:23, Alan Hightower wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Should a migration be in the future, what would it be too? As I said, I
>> can host the site free of charge up to a moderate amount of traffic
>> (~20GB/mo'ish). But moving away from PBWorks will require moving to a more
>> open CMS. So if it were migrated, we'd need 1 or 2 volunteers to help with
>> site administration. Preferably those with experience in some sort of CMS
>> and Linux/UNIX command line. Waiting patiently for a reply.
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>> PS. I wanted to get the latest 68030 files posted today by JC and the
>> hoops required to get site access (still waiting) are a bit turn off and
>> I'm an enthusiast!
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here
>> <http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=46565DAA163611E580D2299F93ED0201>
>>
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Alan Cox

2015-06-19 10:40:51 UTC

Anyone coming to look for N8VEM stuff will go click umm password protected
must be dead and go elsewhere. IMHO it does urgently need fixing or the
project pages will end up as copies in random pockets all over the net -
hard to find, impossible to update when an old copy becomes the most
popular on search engines and generally giving the impression of an ex
project.

There are plenty of fairly general purpose hosting locations and many like
github far easier to use than the current clunky site.

Alan

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Edward Snider

2015-06-22 16:29:00 UTC

Definitely have to agree. Bad situation especially for new people now.
Pretty much have to email them the files when they get a board or them a
link to a google drive folder or something.

- Ed

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 5:40:53 AM UTC-5, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> Anyone coming to look for N8VEM stuff will go click umm password protected
> must be dead and go elsewhere. IMHO it does urgently need fixing or the
> project pages will end up as copies in random pockets all over the net -
> hard to find, impossible to update when an old copy becomes the most
> popular on search engines and generally giving the impression of an ex
> project.
>
> There are plenty of fairly general purpose hosting locations and many like
> github far easier to use than the current clunky site.
>
> Alan
>

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jdavis

2015-07-03 05:16:41 UTC

Hi, I'm the original creator of the n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com site, but I've
been out of the scene for the last few years. Just found out the site is
now private and not public, and also it's an older version of their
software. Since I'm listed as the creator, I should have admin access but
I don't. I've contacted pbworks to see if they can either upgrade the site
to the latest version (to get me back as an admin), or fix my admin
permissions with the current version, or have them do a manual .zip export
for us so we can put the files and pages up somewhere else. Will let y'all
know what happens.

Jeff

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:29:01 AM UTC-7, Edward Snider wrote:
>
> Definitely have to agree. Bad situation especially for new people now.
> Pretty much have to email them the files when they get a board or them a
> link to a google drive folder or something.
>
> - Ed
>
>
> On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 5:40:53 AM UTC-5, Alan Cox wrote:
>>
>> Anyone coming to look for N8VEM stuff will go click umm password
>> protected must be dead and go elsewhere. IMHO it does urgently need fixing
>> or the project pages will end up as copies in random pockets all over the
>> net - hard to find, impossible to update when an old copy becomes the most
>> popular on search engines and generally giving the impression of an ex
>> project.
>>
>> There are plenty of fairly general purpose hosting locations and many
>> like github far easier to use than the current clunky site.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 07:15:04 UTC

Hi all,

Regarding the circumstances with PBworks, it seems that they're no
longer a reliable solution. We all have limited hours during the
work-week to dedicate for our hobbies, and if these few spare hours are
going to be thrown at just keeping the proprietary solution working,
then it's time to change.

If we don't take a step to resolve this issue and just continue to hope
that we'll not have such problems in the future, it will get worse. The
more content is added to the site, the bigger price we'll pay to get it
back in our hands. A classical example of a "vendor lock-in".

If in the past the question has been "should we move to another
hosting", now the question is already "when & how".

Regards,
Nikolay

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 07:39:10 UTC

Hi guys,

Here's an idea - I'm not sure whether this has been suggested already,
but probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel. There should be other
retro-computing communities (like ClassicCMP), and probably some of
them have already a hosting solution that's better than PBworks.

If we can merge together, we can use the same CMS and file storage
solution, thus accelerating the migration process, sharing the support
cost and we'll have also a bigger administration team.

If you guys can recommend such a suitable community, please share so we
can discuss it and try contacting them to discuss the situation.

Regards,
Nikolay

PS: If there's a need, I can also provide a dedicated hosting with
unlimited connectivity, so please count me in.

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Alan Hightower

2015-07-07 13:06:54 UTC

I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if
by hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things. If you
want a preview of what I spent a couple days working on a few weekends
ago, you must log-in to the Wordpress site in order to see it -
otherwise you get an under-construction page. Follow this link:

https://www.n8vem.org/wp-login.php

Username 'test' password 'N8VEMtest!' I will de-activate that user at
the end of this weekend. Once logged in, click on 'NEVEM SBC -> Visit
Site' in the top left corner. Most of the links are broken. However for
an example of one page I have migrated over, use the top menu bar to
visit "ECB Boards -> Peripheral Boards -> ECB: Disk I/O". Or use this
link directly:

https://www.n8vem.org/ecb-disk-io/

There is one caveat. The site/group name must change. Andrew has
requested I not use the N8VEM name as that is his radio call sign. I
fully understand. I just haven't come up with a suitable alternative
yet. If I or we do, I can easily re-register a name and migrate
everything over in minutes. That's the only blocking action as far as I
am concerned.

..waiting for feedback.

-Alan

On 2015-07-07 03:39, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Here's an idea - I'm not sure whether this has been suggested already,
> but probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel. There should be other
> retro-computing communities (like ClassicCMP), and probably some of
> them have already a hosting solution that's better than PBworks.
>
> If we can merge together, we can use the same CMS and file storage
> solution, thus accelerating the migration process, sharing the support
> cost and we'll have also a bigger administration team.
>
> If you guys can recommend such a suitable community, please share so we
> can discuss it and try contacting them to discuss the situation.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>
> PS: If there's a need, I can also provide a dedicated hosting with
> unlimited connectivity, so please count me in.

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 15:06:14 UTC

Hi Alan,

On 07/07/2015 04:06 PM, Alan Hightower wrote:
> I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if
> by hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things. If you

Sounds great, I personally don't mind. To be honest, nowadays I trust
much more to community members than to commercial organizations.

Just one question - do you actually have access to the old files?

> want a preview of what I spent a couple days working on a few weekends
> ago, you must log-in to the Wordpress site in order to see it -
> otherwise you get an under-construction page. Follow this link:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/wp-login.php
>
> Username 'test' password 'N8VEMtest!' I will de-activate that user at
> the end of this weekend. Once logged in, click on 'NEVEM SBC -> Visit
> Site' in the top left corner. Most of the links are broken. However
> for an example of one page I have migrated over, use the top menu bar to
> visit "ECB Boards -> Peripheral Boards -> ECB: Disk I/O". Or use this
> link directly:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/ecb-disk-io/
>
> There is one caveat. The site/group name must change. Andrew has
> requested I not use the N8VEM name as that is his radio call sign. I
> fully understand. I just haven't come up with a suitable alternative
> yet. If I or we do, I can easily re-register a name and migrate
> everything over in minutes. That's the only blocking action as far as I
> am concerned.

Thanks for bringing this topic. Andrew's request is totally
understandable (I'm myself a ham radio operator and agree), so we'll
have to find a solution.

Whatever the solution is, it would be great if in the future it doesn't
point to/overload a single person, so the community can easily
develop/refresh the team, and people can easily join/leave the team as
their personal life allows.

I guess this is the place to say "Thanks!" to Andrew and everyone else
who dedicated their spare hours so far to make these wonderful retro
projects.

>
> ..waiting for feedback.
>
> -Alan

Regards,
Nikolay

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yoda

2015-07-07 15:24:59 UTC

Will the site allow downloading a whole folder at a time. That is the
biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site. If I am working on a
particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can work
disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I can zero
in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. Today I have to
download the files individually and then reassemble the directory
structure. GitHub would definitely solve this problem and also the problem
of upgraded boards overwriting notes on previous version as has happened in
the S100 folders.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-5, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
> I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if by
> hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things. If you want a
> preview of what I spent a couple days working on a few weekends ago, you
> must log-in to the Wordpress site in order to see it - otherwise you get an
> under-construction page. Follow this link:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/wp-login.php
>
> Username 'test' password 'N8VEMtest!' I will de-activate that user at
> the end of this weekend. Once logged in, click on 'NEVEM SBC -> Visit
> Site' in the top left corner. Most of the links are broken. However for
> an example of one page I have migrated over, use the top menu bar to visit
> "ECB Boards -> Peripheral Boards -> ECB: Disk I/O". Or use this link
> directly:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/ecb-disk-io/
>
> There is one caveat. The site/group name must change. Andrew has
> requested I not use the N8VEM name as that is his radio call sign. I fully
> understand. I just haven't come up with a suitable alternative yet. If I
> or we do, I can easily re-register a name and migrate everything over in
> minutes. That's the only blocking action as far as I am concerned.
>
> ..waiting for feedback.
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-07 03:39, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Here's an idea - I'm not sure whether this has been suggested already,
> but probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel. There should be other
> retro-computing communities (like ClassicCMP), and probably some of
> them have already a hosting solution that's better than PBworks.
>
> If we can merge together, we can use the same CMS and file storage
> solution, thus accelerating the migration process, sharing the support
> cost and we'll have also a bigger administration team.
>
> If you guys can recommend such a suitable community, please share so we
> can discuss it and try contacting them to discuss the situation.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>
> PS: If there's a need, I can also provide a dedicated hosting with
> unlimited connectivity, so please count me in.
>
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 16:50:04 UTC

Hi Yoda,

On 07/07/2015 06:24 PM, yoda wrote:
> Will the site allow downloading a whole folder at a time. That is the
> biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site. If I am working on a
> particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can work
> disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I can
> zero in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. Today I
> have to download the files individually and then reassemble the
> directory structure. GitHub would definitely solve this problem and
> also the problem of upgraded boards overwriting notes on previous
> version as has happened in the S100 folders.

I would suggest to organize the files in project repositories, and if
there are any shared files, they can be put in sub-modules, to avoid
duplication. This will definitely cover your need to download all
related files in a single download, plus having the added benefits of
integrity checks and ability to diff your local modifications.

Regards,
Nikolay

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John Coffman

2015-07-07 18:10:25 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<br>
Alan's offer, IMHO, is the best as long as we have at least 2
administrators.<br>
<br>
Personally, I hate version control systems.  They are all different;
few work with multiple contributors; and most require special
software to access.  Does the access software work on Mac, Windoze,
& Linux?<br>
<br>
My own version control system is a zip file with a number on it. 
The number is often the date.  My own Kicad version control is
archive sub-directories, again with a number in the name.<br>
<br>
FTP:  or  HTML:  upload/download work well for me.<br>
<br>
IMHO, Alan is headed in the proper direction.  Removing the N8VEM
brand is going to be hard, however.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/07/2015 09:50 AM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mail.bg" type="cite">Hi Yoda,
<br>
<br>
On 07/07/2015 06:24 PM, yoda wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Will the site allow downloading a whole
folder at a time.  That is the
<br>
biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site.  If I am
working on a
<br>
particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can
work
<br>
disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I
can
<br>
zero in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. 
Today I
<br>
have to download the files individually and then reassemble the
<br>
directory structure.  GitHub would definitely solve this problem
and
<br>
also the problem of upgraded boards overwriting notes on
previous
<br>
version as has happened in the S100 folders.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I would suggest to organize the files in project repositories, and
if
<br>
there are any shared files, they can be put in sub-modules, to
avoid
<br>
duplication. This will definitely cover your need to download all
<br>
related files in a single download, plus having the added benefits
of
<br>
integrity checks and ability to diff your local modifications.
<br>
<br>
Regards,
<br>
Nikolay
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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Alan Hightower

2015-07-07 18:15:23 UTC

The best suggestion I have so far is 'ruffsbc.org' after the founders of
Zilog.

On 2015-07-07 14:10, John Coffman wrote:

> Alan's offer, IMHO, is the best as long as we have at least 2 administrators.
>
> Personally, I hate version control systems. They are all different; few work with multiple contributors; and most require special software to access. Does the access software work on Mac, Windoze, & Linux?
>
> My own version control system is a zip file with a number on it. The number is often the date. My own Kicad version control is archive sub-directories, again with a number in the name.
>
> FTP: or HTML: upload/download work well for me.
>
> IMHO, Alan is headed in the proper direction. Removing the N8VEM brand is going to be hard, however.
>
> --John
>
> On 07/07/2015 09:50 AM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote: Hi Yoda,
>
> On 07/07/2015 06:24 PM, yoda wrote:
> Will the site allow downloading a whole folder at a time. That is the
> biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site. If I am working on a
> particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can work
> disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I can
> zero in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. Today I
> have to download the files individually and then reassemble the
> directory structure. GitHub would definitely solve this problem and
> also the problem of upgraded boards overwriting notes on previous
> version as has happened in the S100 folders.
> I would suggest to organize the files in project repositories, and if
> there are any shared files, they can be put in sub-modules, to avoid
> duplication. This will definitely cover your need to download all
> related files in a single download, plus having the added benefits of
> integrity checks and ability to diff your local modifications.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay

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Paul Birkel

2015-07-07 18:26:36 UTC

How about something more obvious, like: microsbc.org

It's currently available ...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:

>
>
> The best suggestion I have so far is 'ruffsbc.org' after the founders of
> Zilog.
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-07 14:10, John Coffman wrote:
>
>
> Alan's offer, IMHO, is the best as long as we have at least 2
> administrators.
>
> Personally, I hate version control systems. They are all different; few
> work with multiple contributors; and most require special software to
> access. Does the access software work on Mac, Windoze, & Linux?
>
> My own version control system is a zip file with a number on it. The
> number is often the date. My own Kicad version control is archive
> sub-directories, again with a number in the name.
>
> FTP: or HTML: upload/download work well for me.
>
> IMHO, Alan is headed in the proper direction. Removing the N8VEM brand is
> going to be hard, however.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
> On 07/07/2015 09:50 AM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Yoda,
>
> On 07/07/2015 06:24 PM, yoda wrote:
>
> Will the site allow downloading a whole folder at a time. That is the
> biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site. If I am working on a
> particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can work
> disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I can
> zero in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. Today I
> have to download the files individually and then reassemble the
> directory structure. GitHub would definitely solve this problem and
> also the problem of upgraded boards overwriting notes on previous
> version as has happened in the S100 folders.
>
>
> I would suggest to organize the files in project repositories, and if
> there are any shared files, they can be put in sub-modules, to avoid
> duplication. This will definitely cover your need to download all
> related files in a single download, plus having the added benefits of
> integrity checks and ability to diff your local modifications.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>
>
>
> --
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John Coffman

2015-07-07 18:43:32 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
On 07/07/2015 11:26 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJj77rvYQDQWD4mUXu7d6bphCs=TVEhdND-***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>How about something more obvious, like:Â  <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://microsbc.org">microsbc.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's currently available ...</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
A variation on "-SBC-" sounds good, but the ECB bus makes for
multi-board systems, not Single Board Computers.<br>
<br>
I came up with:<br>
<br>
        MEV8        (obvious derivation by reversing N8VEM)<br>
<br>
then,<br>
        MEV80,    "80" being a reference to the 1980's, when most of
the chips we have played with made their appearance, but easily
confused with "Z80."  Boards with more than Z80's are now out
there:  N8 & Mark IV; 65xx, 6x0x, & Mini-M68k.<br>
<br>
A variation on "RETRO" comes to mind, also.<br>
<br>
How about,<br>
<br>
        micro1980.org  ?<br>
<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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Paul Birkel

2015-07-07 18:52:31 UTC

What?!! SBC =/= Small Bus Computer? :->

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 2:43 PM, John Coffman <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 07/07/2015 11:26 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> How about something more obvious, like:Ã microsbc.org
>
> It's currently available ...
>
> A variation on "-SBC-" sounds good, but the ECB bus makes for multi-board
> systems, not Single Board Computers.
>
> I came up with:
>
> MEV8 (obvious derivation by reversing N8VEM)
>
> then,
> MEV80, "80" being a reference to the 1980's, when most of the
> chips we have played with made their appearance, but easily confused with
> "Z80." Boards with more than Z80's are now out there: N8 & Mark IV; 65xx,
> 6x0x, & Mini-M68k.
>
> A variation on "RETRO" comes to mind, also.
>
> How about,
>
> micro1980.org ?
>
>
> --John
>
>
>
> --
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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 19:40:14 UTC

Hi John,

On 07/07/2015 09:43 PM, John Coffman wrote:
> A variation on "RETRO" comes to mind, also.

What about "retrohub"?

Regards,
Nikolay

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John Coffman

2015-07-07 19:52:12 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<br>
On 07/07/2015 12:40 PM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mail.bg" type="cite">Hi John,
<br>
<br>
On 07/07/2015 09:43 PM, John Coffman wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">A variation on "RETRO" comes to mind,
also.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
What about "retrohub"?
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sounds good. <br>
<br>
I leave it up to Alan to pick a name.  The final choice will be
dictated by what domain name is available.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mail.bg" type="cite">
<br>
Regards,
<br>
Nikolay
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 20:51:52 UTC

Hi John,

On 07/07/2015 10:52 PM, John Coffman wrote:
>
> On 07/07/2015 12:40 PM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> On 07/07/2015 09:43 PM, John Coffman wrote:
>>> A variation on "RETRO" comes to mind, also.
>>
>> What about "retrohub"?
>
> Sounds good.
>
> I leave it up to Alan to pick a name. The final choice will be dictated
> by what domain name is available.

That's OK to me. Btw retrohub.org is already hosting some git repos for
F-CPU, and it would be a honor for me to be able to provide a
sub-domain for the N8VEM successor projects.

Regards,
Nikolay

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jdavis

2015-07-07 21:01:27 UTC

When I was originally trying to find a name for the site that eventually
became n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com, I toyed with the idea of calling it the
Homebrew Computer Club, to revive the name of the legendary Silicon Valley
Homebrew Computer Club
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club). But I thought that
would be a bit presumptuous, because, well this is just a a bunch of people
messing around with 8bit stuff in our spare time.

But that is exactly what the Homebrew Computer Club was - people hacking
around in their spare time, designing stuff and sharing it with other
people. And in the last 7 or so years, you all have created a whole bunch
of great designs, everything from the original N8VEM ECB system that Andrew
first envisioned, to smaller standalone Zeta version, the expanded N8, all
the new S-100 cards, an entire PC XT boardset, new S100 and ECB boards with
non-Z80 8bit processors, even some with 32bit processors, lots of software
hacking going on - this truly is a homebrew computer club, in the spirit of
the original.

This year is the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Homebrew Computer
Club. So I think it's fitting that the new name of this group be some
variation of Homebrew Computer Club. Or even just the Homebrew Computer
Club - pick up where they left off, and keep going.

Jeff

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Christopher Trumbour

2015-07-07 23:58:44 UTC

I like that! Homebrew Computer Club 2.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 5:01:28 PM UTC-4, jdavis wrote:
>
> When I was originally trying to find a name for the site that eventually
> became n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com, I toyed with the idea of calling it the
> Homebrew Computer Club, to revive the name of the legendary Silicon Valley
> Homebrew Computer Club (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club). But I thought
> that would be a bit presumptuous, because, well this is just a a bunch of
> people messing around with 8bit stuff in our spare time.
>
> But that is exactly what the Homebrew Computer Club was - people hacking
> around in their spare time, designing stuff and sharing it with other
> people. And in the last 7 or so years, you all have created a whole bunch
> of great designs, everything from the original N8VEM ECB system that Andrew
> first envisioned, to smaller standalone Zeta version, the expanded N8, all
> the new S-100 cards, an entire PC XT boardset, new S100 and ECB boards with
> non-Z80 8bit processors, even some with 32bit processors, lots of software
> hacking going on - this truly is a homebrew computer club, in the spirit of
> the original.
>
> This year is the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Homebrew Computer
> Club. So I think it's fitting that the new name of this group be some
> variation of Homebrew Computer Club. Or even just the Homebrew Computer
> Club - pick up where they left off, and keep going.
>
> Jeff
>

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William R Sowerbutts

2015-07-08 14:11:16 UTC

I also like the idea of reviving the "Homebrew Computer Club" name but I
don't think we can use it verbatim.

Perhaps something like "21st Century Homebrew Computer Club"?

Or "Homebrew Computer Hobbyists"?

Will

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 04:58:44PM -0700, Christopher Trumbour wrote:
>I like that! Homebrew Computer Club 2.
>
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 5:01:28 PM UTC-4, jdavis wrote:
>>
>> When I was originally trying to find a name for the site that eventually
>> became n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com, I toyed with the idea of calling it the
>> Homebrew Computer Club, to revive the name of the legendary Silicon Valley
>> Homebrew Computer Club (
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club). But I thought
>> that would be a bit presumptuous, because, well this is just a a bunch of
>> people messing around with 8bit stuff in our spare time.
>>
>> But that is exactly what the Homebrew Computer Club was - people hacking
>> around in their spare time, designing stuff and sharing it with other
>> people. And in the last 7 or so years, you all have created a whole bunch
>> of great designs, everything from the original N8VEM ECB system that Andrew
>> first envisioned, to smaller standalone Zeta version, the expanded N8, all
>> the new S-100 cards, an entire PC XT boardset, new S100 and ECB boards with
>> non-Z80 8bit processors, even some with 32bit processors, lots of software
>> hacking going on - this truly is a homebrew computer club, in the spirit of
>> the original.
>>
>> This year is the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Homebrew Computer
>> Club. So I think it's fitting that the new name of this group be some
>> variation of Homebrew Computer Club. Or even just the Homebrew Computer
>> Club - pick up where they left off, and keep going.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
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_________________________________________________________________________
William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
"Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
(m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}

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Richard Cini

2015-07-08 14:22:04 UTC

Maybe "Retro Homebrew Computing Club"?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 10:11 AM, William R Sowerbutts <***@sowerbutts.com> wrote:
>
> I also like the idea of reviving the "Homebrew Computer Club" name but I
> don't think we can use it verbatim.
>
> Perhaps something like "21st Century Homebrew Computer Club"?
>
> Or "Homebrew Computer Hobbyists"?
>
> Will
>
>> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 04:58:44PM -0700, Christopher Trumbour wrote:
>> I like that! Homebrew Computer Club 2.
>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 5:01:28 PM UTC-4, jdavis wrote:
>>>
>>> When I was originally trying to find a name for the site that eventually
>>> became n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com, I toyed with the idea of calling it the
>>> Homebrew Computer Club, to revive the name of the legendary Silicon Valley
>>> Homebrew Computer Club (
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club). But I thought
>>> that would be a bit presumptuous, because, well this is just a a bunch of
>>> people messing around with 8bit stuff in our spare time.
>>>
>>> But that is exactly what the Homebrew Computer Club was - people hacking
>>> around in their spare time, designing stuff and sharing it with other
>>> people. And in the last 7 or so years, you all have created a whole bunch
>>> of great designs, everything from the original N8VEM ECB system that Andrew
>>> first envisioned, to smaller standalone Zeta version, the expanded N8, all
>>> the new S-100 cards, an entire PC XT boardset, new S100 and ECB boards with
>>> non-Z80 8bit processors, even some with 32bit processors, lots of software
>>> hacking going on - this truly is a homebrew computer club, in the spirit of
>>> the original.
>>>
>>> This year is the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Homebrew Computer
>>> Club. So I think it's fitting that the new name of this group be some
>>> variation of Homebrew Computer Club. Or even just the Homebrew Computer
>>> Club - pick up where they left off, and keep going.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> --
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>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> William R Sowerbutts ***@sowerbutts.com
> "Carpe post meridiem" http://sowerbutts.com
> main(){char*s=">#=0> ^#X@#@^7=",c=0,m;for(;c<15;c++)for
> (m=-1;m<7;putchar(m++/6&c%3/2?10:s[c]-31&1<<m?42:32));}
>
> --
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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-08 04:32:47 UTC

It seems a little bit weird to take the name of something that was so
associated with computing history, with none of the original folks
involved. BUT the description is probably more apt here on and on the
-S100 group, than anywhere else on the Internet right now.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 2:01:28 PM UTC-7, jdavis wrote:
>
> When I was originally trying to find a name for the site that eventually
> became n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com, I toyed with the idea of calling it the
> Homebrew Computer Club, to revive the name of the legendary Silicon Valley
> Homebrew Computer Club (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_Computer_Club). But I thought
> that would be a bit presumptuous, because, well this is just a a bunch of
> people messing around with 8bit stuff in our spare time.
>
> But that is exactly what the Homebrew Computer Club was - people hacking
> around in their spare time, designing stuff and sharing it with other
> people. And in the last 7 or so years, you all have created a whole bunch
> of great designs, everything from the original N8VEM ECB system that Andrew
> first envisioned, to smaller standalone Zeta version, the expanded N8, all
> the new S-100 cards, an entire PC XT boardset, new S100 and ECB boards with
> non-Z80 8bit processors, even some with 32bit processors, lots of software
> hacking going on - this truly is a homebrew computer club, in the spirit of
> the original.
>
> This year is the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Homebrew Computer
> Club. So I think it's fitting that the new name of this group be some
> variation of Homebrew Computer Club. Or even just the Homebrew Computer
> Club - pick up where they left off, and keep going.
>
> Jeff
>

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Alan Cox

2015-07-07 19:56:57 UTC

>>
>> Personally, I hate version control systems. They are all different; few
work with multiple contributors; and most require special software to
access. Does the access software work on Mac, Windoze, & Linux?

Git is opensource and runs on most things, or will port trivially. Its
designed for code however.

>>
>> My own version control system is a zip file with a number on it. The
number is often the date. My own Kicad version control is archive
sub-directories, again with a number in the name.

That may work for CAD but its a nightmare for code.

Alan

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yoda

2015-07-07 18:26:41 UTC

I don't disagree - as long as there is an easy way to download a folder or
directory - doing it file by file is very painful.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 1:10:28 PM UTC-5, John Coffman wrote:
>
>
> Alan's offer, IMHO, is the best as long as we have at least 2
> administrators.
>
> Personally, I hate version control systems. They are all different; few
> work with multiple contributors; and most require special software to
> access. Does the access software work on Mac, Windoze, & Linux?
>
> My own version control system is a zip file with a number on it. The
> number is often the date. My own Kicad version control is archive
> sub-directories, again with a number in the name.
>
> FTP: or HTML: upload/download work well for me.
>
> IMHO, Alan is headed in the proper direction. Removing the N8VEM brand is
> going to be hard, however.
>
> --John
>
>
>
>
> On 07/07/2015 09:50 AM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Yoda,
>
> On 07/07/2015 06:24 PM, yoda wrote:
>
> Will the site allow downloading a whole folder at a time. That is the
> biggest pet peeve of mine with the current site. If I am working on a
> particular board I like to clone all the files locally so I can work
> disconnected - use editors on them, cut and slice pdf files so I can
> zero in on the circuit area that is giving me problems, etc. Today I
> have to download the files individually and then reassemble the
> directory structure. GitHub would definitely solve this problem and
> also the problem of upgraded boards overwriting notes on previous
> version as has happened in the S100 folders.
>
>
> I would suggest to organize the files in project repositories, and if
> there are any shared files, they can be put in sub-modules, to avoid
> duplication. This will definitely cover your need to download all
> related files in a single download, plus having the added benefits of
> integrity checks and ability to diff your local modifications.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>
>

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-08 04:48:52 UTC

Alan,

I took a look at your email and this is my feedback on the Wordpress:
-I don't see how to edit pages - is the Test user not an editor?
-There doesn't seem to be a way to have a "folder structure" like we had on
PBWiki, just files attached to a page. I think this will make navigation
and finding things ultimately kind of hard. I actually really like the way
we have "folders" and "Pages" on PBWiki, since then we can have folders for
users to post their pictures of their builds and things like that which are
separate from the pages and folders for the boards. One thing that might
be a good addition to what PBWiki could do, would be to be able to FTP in
and download entire folders all at once.

The main issue I see with Wordpress is that the menus and links between
pages, etc (at least on the small Wordpress site I tried to manage) are not
auto-generated so whenever a board gets added, a new page gets created, etc
there are changes required to other pages to get that new page to show up.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:06:49 AM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
> I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if by
> hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things. If you want a
> preview of what I spent a couple days working on a few weekends ago, you
> must log-in to the Wordpress site in order to see it - otherwise you get an
> under-construction page. Follow this link:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/wp-login.php
>
> Username 'test' password 'N8VEMtest!' I will de-activate that user at
> the end of this weekend. Once logged in, click on 'NEVEM SBC -> Visit
> Site' in the top left corner. Most of the links are broken. However for
> an example of one page I have migrated over, use the top menu bar to visit
> "ECB Boards -> Peripheral Boards -> ECB: Disk I/O". Or use this link
> directly:
>
> https://www.n8vem.org/ecb-disk-io/
>
> There is one caveat. The site/group name must change. Andrew has
> requested I not use the N8VEM name as that is his radio call sign. I fully
> understand. I just haven't come up with a suitable alternative yet. If I
> or we do, I can easily re-register a name and migrate everything over in
> minutes. That's the only blocking action as far as I am concerned.
>
> ..waiting for feedback.
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-07 03:39, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Here's an idea - I'm not sure whether this has been suggested already,
> but probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel. There should be other
> retro-computing communities (like ClassicCMP), and probably some of
> them have already a hosting solution that's better than PBworks.
>
> If we can merge together, we can use the same CMS and file storage
> solution, thus accelerating the migration process, sharing the support
> cost and we'll have also a bigger administration team.
>
> If you guys can recommend such a suitable community, please share so we
> can discuss it and try contacting them to discuss the situation.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>
> PS: If there's a need, I can also provide a dedicated hosting with
> unlimited connectivity, so please count me in.
>
>

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Alan Hightower

2015-07-08 06:07:57 UTC

Yes the test user is not an editor.

I'm not sure of any tool that has a organizational model similar to
PBWorks. As far as files, the wordpress download manager pro plugin
(which I have a multisite license) allows for folder hierarchy for files
as well as bundled downloads of multiple files into one zip. For small
files, let's us SVN or GIT. I had assumed Douglas' repo was still
active, but I can also setup one or more on the same site if that helps.

For builder photos, I really don't like the idea of managing them as
binary assets. There is an advanced media gallery plugin installed where
you can upload photos with a category tag and create views that glob
multiple category tags together with preview thumbnails. You can see an
example of it in the Builder Photos section of the ECB: Disk I/O board.

Yes, when you create a page, you do have to link to it from anything
that is a top level control - such as the top bar menu. However I'm not
sure how that is different than a traditional wiki. When you create a
new wiki page, it is a floating orphan until you link to it from other
pages. The same tag language applies to wordpress content pages. I don't
plan on using the blog feature at all. The reason I started with WP was
personal familiarity and the fact is has a way larger plugin eco-system
than mediawiki with more advanced features. There are some basic
primitives that allow you to glob pages by catagory for things like
menus. That could be leveraged. What is live isn't intended to be the
functional arrangement but a demonstration of style. I was going for a
simple clean and easy to navigate look.

I can certainly make a content authors quick-start guide for things that
aren't quite intuitive.

-Alan

On 2015-07-08 00:48, Andrew Bingham wrote:

> Alan,
>
> I took a look at your email and this is my feedback on the Wordpress:
> -I don't see how to edit pages - is the Test user not an editor?
> -There doesn't seem to be a way to have a "folder structure" like we had on PBWiki, just files attached to a page. I think this will make navigation and finding things ultimately kind of hard. I actually really like the way we have "folders" and "Pages" on PBWiki, since then we can have folders for users to post their pictures of their builds and things like that which are separate from the pages and folders for the boards. One thing that might be a good addition to what PBWiki could do, would be to be able to FTP in and download entire folders all at once.
>
> The main issue I see with Wordpress is that the menus and links between pages, etc (at least on the small Wordpress site I tried to manage) are not auto-generated so whenever a board gets added, a new page gets created, etc there are changes required to other pages to get that new page to show up.

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-08 15:33:44 UTC

There are a lot of files on the PBWiki that aren't associated with a page,
that people have placed in the folder structure on their own - reference
data from old boards from the 80s, etc. Also you can create Pages within
the Folders that stand on their own and then navigate to them via the
folder structure, so no all of the Pages on the current site are linked to
from other Pages - some of them are just sitting on their own and you can
get to them just fine by drilling down through the folders. There are
over 6000 files/folders in the current PBWiki structure. It's really easy
to make a new folder and upload some interesting old documents for others
to reference, without having to create a "post" for the files to refer to
or work with plugins or anything like that.

I don't like to complain and not try and offer solutions - I played around
for an hour or two last night with a demo site using Open Atrium
(http://openatrium.com/) which is supposed to be a collaboration site
software with the ability to have documents, discussions, and folder
structures. But their demo site was super slow, unresponsive, threw some
errors at me, and generally seemed really clunky (maybe it would run faster
on a dedicated server vs their virtualized demo environment?). And their
file browser does not allow uploading .zips, so that kind of ruled it out.
I was really hopeful I had found something that would be a good fit (being
a collaboration tool instead of a wiki or a content management system), but
it's not even up to where PBWiki was years ago. I will keep looking.

I think it's really important to keep the data in a form that is easily
mirror-able, etc later. I feel like the Wordpress is going from a
proprietary thing with no way to get the data back out, to a more open
thing - but still with the data stored in a Wordpress folder/page structure
that makes it hard to get it all out and move to anything else. Yes, we
can make really nice layouts with it (the test site layout was good) but
the long-term maintenance seems like it would require a lot of effort.
Ideally we would somehow work with PBWiki to get a .zip archive of
everything on the current site, and put that folder structure up in a
"Legacy" section of a new site by just uploading it....

What about just using MediaWiki for pages and a simple FTP server to store
the files in??

Since you spoke with Andrew L about the name - did he not want us to use
N8VEM for the new *domain name* of the site, or does he want us to remove
it from the *content* as well? Removing the "branding" from all the
content would be very very very difficult (and credit is definitely still
due for all the work that has been done!), so I think some clarification
here is really important. Ideally we'd create our new domain name, and
host the N8VEM migrated data as the first "project" on the new domain name
- just not as the top-level .org address.

Andrew B

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 11:07:50 PM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Yes the test user is not an editor.
>
> I'm not sure of any tool that has a organizational model similar to
> PBWorks. As far as files, the wordpress download manager pro plugin (which
> I have a multisite license) allows for folder hierarchy for files as well
> as bundled downloads of multiple files into one zip. For small files, let's
> us SVN or GIT. I had assumed Douglas' repo was still active, but I can also
> setup one or more on the same site if that helps.
>
> For builder photos, I really don't like the idea of managing them as
> binary assets. There is an advanced media gallery plugin installed where
> you can upload photos with a category tag and create views that glob
> multiple category tags together with preview thumbnails. You can see an
> example of it in the Builder Photos section of the ECB: Disk I/O board.
>
> Yes, when you create a page, you do have to link to it from anything that
> is a top level control - such as the top bar menu. However I'm not sure how
> that is different than a traditional wiki. When you create a new wiki page,
> it is a floating orphan until you link to it from other pages. The same tag
> language applies to wordpress content pages. I don't plan on using the blog
> feature at all. The reason I started with WP was personal familiarity and
> the fact is has a way larger plugin eco-system than mediawiki with more
> advanced features. There are some basic primitives that allow you to glob
> pages by catagory for things like menus. That could be leveraged. What is
> live isn't intended to be the functional arrangement but a demonstration of
> style. I was going for a simple clean and easy to navigate look.
>
>
> I can certainly make a content authors quick-start guide for things that
> aren't quite intuitive.
>
>
> -Alan
>
> On 2015-07-08 00:48, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
> I took a look at your email and this is my feedback on the Wordpress:
> -I don't see how to edit pages - is the Test user not an editor?
> -There doesn't seem to be a way to have a "folder structure" like we had
> on PBWiki, just files attached to a page. I think this will make
> navigation and finding things ultimately kind of hard. I actually really
> like the way we have "folders" and "Pages" on PBWiki, since then we can
> have folders for users to post their pictures of their builds and things
> like that which are separate from the pages and folders for the boards.
> One thing that might be a good addition to what PBWiki could do, would be
> to be able to FTP in and download entire folders all at once.
>
> The main issue I see with Wordpress is that the menus and links between
> pages, etc (at least on the small Wordpress site I tried to manage) are not
> auto-generated so whenever a board gets added, a new page gets created, etc
> there are changes required to other pages to get that new page to show up.
>
>
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-08 17:45:25 UTC

Hi Andrew,

On 07/08/2015 06:33 PM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> What about just using MediaWiki for pages and a simple FTP server to
> store the files in??

MediaWiki looks very elegant and stylish, I would love to see it
hosting the retro projects' contents. As long as the solution is libre
software, I'm fine.

Regarding the FTP - please leave it to die in peace. Nowadays we have
SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol), which is much more secure and (at
least from my experince) easier to support.

Regards,
Nikolay

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Stewart Russell

2015-07-14 01:36:34 UTC

On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 13:45:30 UTC-4, picmaster wrote:
>
> MediaWiki looks very elegant and stylish, I would love to see it
> hosting the retro projects' contents.

It's absolute hell to admin, though. You either have to have an army of
admins, or you have to lock it down so tight that only a select few can get
in.

cheers,
Stewart

73 de VA3PID

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-14 20:15:53 UTC

Hi Stewart,

On 07/14/2015 04:36 AM, Stewart Russell wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 13:45:30 UTC-4, picmaster wrote:
>
> MediaWiki looks very elegant and stylish, I would love to see it
> hosting the retro projects' contents.
>
>
> It's absolute hell to admin, though. You either have to have an army of
> admins, or you have to lock it down so tight that only a select few can
> get in.

Thanks for sharing this. Btw, have you seen a CMS with similar "look and
feel", but with easier administration? Would be great if you can
recommend one.

>
> cheers,
> Stewart
>
> 73 de VA3PID

Kind regards,
Nikolay / LZ1NRD

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Stewart Russell

2015-07-15 02:13:05 UTC

On Tuesday, 14 July 2015 16:15:56 UTC-4, picmaster wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for sharing this. Btw, have you seen a CMS with similar "look and
> feel", but with easier administration? Would be great if you can
> recommend one.
>

Similar to MediaWiki? Not really. The nearest I've seen for ease-of-use is
BuddyPress <https://buddypress.org/>, which runs on top of WordPress. As
long as you don't go mad with plugins, WordPress is pretty solid. You can
lock out spammers fairly easily. Wordpress can handle huge file attachments
(it's usually the host that's the limit). My industry (mis?)uses for public
information websites, some of which have many gigabytes of binary files.

cheers,
Stewart

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Vince Mulhollon

2015-07-15 13:32:46 UTC

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-5, Stewart Russell wrote:

> Similar to MediaWiki?
>

https://www.wikibooks.org/

Its part of the wikipedia foundation. So wikibooks is a sister of the
wikipedia. Can't get more similar to MediaWiki than actually using
MediaWiki.

To quote https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:What_is_Wikibooks

"Wikibooks is for textbooks, annotated texts, instructional guides, and
manuals." I guess we'd be 3 out of 4, can't be much more on target than
that! Arguable some of the more exotic board design and troubleshooting
writeups would qualify us as a (small) EE textbook making that 4 out of 4.
So yeah, they actively want us there.

"These materials can be used... for self-learning" Cool they're gonna love
us.

The only part they might possibly be annoyed at is the advertising clause.
Don't post ordering info in the textbook. Then again, we have had board
runs by multiple people not just the original author, haven't we? So it
would be "unwise-ish" to put ordering info for coordinator #2 if the next
run will be by coordinator #3 anyway.

There is already a wikibooks section called "Computing" with a subsection
of "Computer Hardware" and some wanna be textbooks. We wouldn't be the
first, not exactly.

Simply create a "textbook" for each PCB board. That makes more sense than
one big book with a chapter per board because the wikibooks project
supports conversion of a book into an ebook, pdf, etc, so you could get the
"SBCv2 Book" as a pdf without having to include the 6x0x board.

Something tells me the wikipedia foundation is not going to notice a gig
here or a gig there. The wikimedia commons has a whole subsection for
storing schematic diagrams (admittedly not terribly full, but we can fix
that LOL).

The only problem with the wiki project overall is they support and
encourage deletionist trolls. Because disk space is so expensive, and
trolls enjoy destroying peoples work so much.

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Alan Cox

2015-07-15 13:45:32 UTC

> The only problem with the wiki project overall is they support and
encourage deletionist trolls

That's the minor problem. Subtle hard to detect vandalism to component
lists firmware and schematics is far worse and wackipedia is full of nut
jobs who will spend their lifetime (and yours if you are dumb enough to
bother) continually changing and breaking articles to fit their specific
belief. As there is no QA of any kind its just as likely real contributors
will get blocked as trolls if they try and stop it.

People will also keep deleting it because you have to like pay for boards
so it must be evil and commercial, and because the hardware licencing is
non-free.

Alan

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-15 14:47:49 UTC

Hi Alan,

On 07/15/2015 04:45 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > The only problem with the wiki project overall is they support and
> encourage deletionist trolls
>
> That's the minor problem. Subtle hard to detect vandalism to component
> lists firmware and schematics is far worse and wackipedia is full of nut
> jobs who will spend their lifetime (and yours if you are dumb enough to
> bother) continually changing and breaking articles to fit their specific
> belief. As there is no QA of any kind its just as likely real
> contributors will get blocked as trolls if they try and stop it.
>
> People will also keep deleting it because you have to like pay for
> boards so it must be evil and commercial, and because the hardware
> licencing is non-free.

Tend to agree. That's why I think hosting an open-source CMS on one of
our own machines (or a machine owned by a sister-project) makes sense
in terms of control and avoiding such issues. Also disk space tends to
become a non-issue when using our own hardware.

Kind regards,
Nikolay

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t***@old-computers.com

2015-07-16 13:33:12 UTC

I'm not very familiar with CMSs but I just found these two plugins for the
Joomla CMS: DOCman (http://www.joomlatools.com/extensions/docman/) and
FILEman (http://www.joomlatools.com/extensions/fileman/).
It seems they do pretty much what we need, but I don't know how difficult
it is to set up joomla and these plugins.
Unfortunately, they're not free, there's a $99/year subscription for the
bundle, but if they do the job, it may be something we could consider...

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-15 04:29:35 UTC

The PBWiki was only editable by registered users, but viewable to the
public, before it was set to login-only. I imagine on a new site we would
want to do something similar. It would not need to be an
editable-by-the-public Wiki in the traditional sense.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 2:59:33 AM UTC-7, Stewart Russell wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 13:45:30 UTC-4, picmaster wrote:
>>
>> MediaWiki looks very elegant and stylish, I would love to see it
>> hosting the retro projects' contents.
>
>
> It's absolute hell to admin, though. You either have to have an army of
> admins, or you have to lock it down so tight that only a select few can get
> in.
>
> cheers,
> Stewart
>
> 73 de VA3PID
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-15 11:26:32 UTC

Hi Andrew,

On 07/15/2015 07:29 AM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> The PBWiki was only editable by registered users, but viewable to the
> public, before it was set to login-only. I imagine on a new site we
> would want to do something similar. It would not need to be an
> editable-by-the-public Wiki in the traditional sense.

Completely agree. I would even go a step further, by appointing a
member of the community to be responsible for the wiki pages related to
each sub-project, so he can make sure the information is valid and
consistent. Would be nice if other registered users can edit the wiki
pages, but would prefer the wiki pages owner to approve these edits in
the end.

Regards,
Nikolay

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John Coffman

2015-07-15 13:33:03 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
I do not know if it would be workable, but I have my own
account/pages with PBWorks.  They are public, since I am the
administrator.<br>
<br>
I propose to try putting all the information regarding the upcoming
KISS-68030 project in that public place, with just a link to it on
the N8VEM Wiki.  Let us see if this is workable:  individuals
responsible for their own project areas.  Others would be able to
request write access to the specific area.<br>
<br>
One would have to put a statement on the site to the effect,
"Contact <xxx> directly for board availability," to avoid
running afoul of PBWorks non-commercial "Terms of Service."<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/15/2015 04:26 AM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mail.bg" type="cite">Hi
Andrew,
<br>
<br>
On 07/15/2015 07:29 AM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The PBWiki was only editable by registered
users, but viewable to the
<br>
public, before it was set to login-only.  I imagine on a new
site we
<br>
would want to do something similar.  It would not need to be an
<br>
editable-by-the-public Wiki in the traditional sense.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Completely agree. I would even go a step further, by appointing a
<br>
member of the community to be responsible for the wiki pages
related to
<br>
each sub-project, so he can make sure the information is valid and
<br>
consistent. Would be nice if other registered users can edit the
wiki
<br>
pages, but would prefer the wiki pages owner to approve these
edits in
<br>
the end.
<br>
<br>
Regards,
<br>
Nikolay
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-15 15:09:28 UTC

Hi Alan,

On 07/07/2015 04:06 PM, Alan Hightower wrote:
> I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if
> by hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things.

Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
which will be installed?

I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.

Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
projects' design documents.

@Everyone: is there someone who sees a big issue if Alan takes
ownership of the new hosting? Please share your concerns and better
proposals in the next 2 weeks, so we can push forward and fix the
situation sooner than later.

@Everyone2: if someone of you ever wanted to be a sub-project page
maintainer, now is the time to raise a hand and help Alan. It would be
great if we have 1+ guys owning each sub-project, so we can keep them
alive even if someone goes on vacation or switches attention to other
real life duties.

Regards,
Nikolay

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-15 15:19:09 UTC

On 07/15/2015 06:09 PM, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
> Hi Alan,
>
> On 07/07/2015 04:06 PM, Alan Hightower wrote:
>> I would be a) happy to host, b) happy to migrate information - even if
>> by hand, and c) happy to keep doing basic maintenance things.
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
> @Everyone: is there someone who sees a big issue if Alan takes
> ownership of the new hosting? Please share your concerns and better
> proposals in the next 2 weeks, so we can push forward and fix the
> situation sooner than later.
>
> @Everyone2: if someone of you ever wanted to be a sub-project page
> maintainer, now is the time to raise a hand and help Alan. It would be
> great if we have 1+ guys owning each sub-project, so we can keep them
> alive even if someone goes on vacation or switches attention to other
> real life duties.

Oops, please read instead "...to keep the pages alive..." :D.

>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>

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Alan Hightower

2015-07-15 16:10:44 UTC

See inline.

On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?

There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown
in my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time
rebuilding raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same
machine (Linux) and plan on a few others near term. So the resources
will be shared. However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of
this group causing undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman,
and other services. My preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion
has pressed the pause button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down
to the page content producers and maintainers.

> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.

Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties
of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part
of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless
there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):

I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
complete this weekend.

Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current site.
3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And
open new account creation.

Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the
migration and updating of legacy project content.

That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.

It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the
original boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-16 04:19:04 UTC

I've got a page for the 6x0x board that I'd want to help move over and the
files that go along with it.....

I really don't think that Wordpress is going to do what we need. There is
6GB of information on the current site, with over 4000 files. Most of
these are not "pages" but are files that people have placed in the PBWiki
folder structure. I am still hopeful that we will be able to get a .zip
copy or a hard drive image of the existing site from PBWiki somehow (and
I'd be willing to chip in some $$$ to help make that happen too). Which
would mean we would need a way to load all the information into a new
website. To "attach" all these files to individual pages in a Wordpress
would be extremely time consuming and the result would be very difficult to
navigate to find what people want compared to a folder structure. Since
Wordpress creates its own strange directory structure, it wouldn't be
possible to easily copy or mirror the files later if we wanted to.

I think we should use a wiki software with "flat file" structure (no
database used, just plaintext files) for the "main site" and "pages" and an
SFTP/FTP site to create a folder structure where users can have folders
they own, boards can have folders, etc. DocuWiki is the
most-frequently-updated wiki software with the flat file structure and
access controls as far as who edits what pages. The pages for boards could
link to the FTP site folders for those boards. No need to get super fancy
- keep it simple. I spent a bunch of time looking at different
"Collaboration" software like Confluence, etc but they all have a lot of
features we won't use and none have a good folder structure.

I'd be willing to pay for some hosting and try setting this up. It seems
silly to go off and set up two things....but I really don't think Wordpress
is going to do what we need, based on how people use the current site.
Using a "flat file" wiki and an SFTP/FTP site would make for easy
relocation and/or mirroring of the site in the future - which is exactly
the situation we find ourselves in now with the PBWiki (unable to get the
content/files out of an existing location).

There is still the question of if Andrew L is okay with us moving the N8VEM
Project materials to a new site and keeping the N8VEM designation within
the *content* of the files if we host it at a different *domain name*.
Since I didn't speak/email with him personally, it's unclear if he wanted
us to just change the domain, or to strip the "branding" out of all of the
pages, etc. I don't think taking the branding out of everything is what he
intended, but clarification on this point would be important to what we put
on a new site.

Andrew B

On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:10:14 AM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
> See inline.
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
>
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
> producers and maintainers.
>
>
>
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of
> technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of
> this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there
> are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
> complete this weekend.
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current site.
> 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And
> open new account creation.
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
> and updating of legacy project content.
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
>
>

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jdavis

2015-07-16 07:49:59 UTC

On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:19:04 PM UTC-7, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> I've got a page for the 6x0x board that I'd want to help move over and the
> files that go along with it.....
>
> [...] There is 6GB of information on the current site, with over 4000
> files. Most of these are not "pages" but are files that people have placed
> in the PBWiki folder structure. I am still hopeful that we will be able to
> get a .zip copy or a hard drive image of the existing site from PBWiki
> somehow (and I'd be willing to chip in some $$$ to help make that happen
> too). [...]
>

I've contacted both pbwiki sales and their main page contact form, and no
response. I just found a way (15 minutes ago) to send a trouble ticket to
their tech support, maybe that will get some response.

In case that fails, I'm working on a script to log onto the site and
download all the pages and files. So far the script can log in as me, but
the parts of site I'm interested in are dynamically generated and filled in
via javascript back-end calls on the web page, so I'll have to figure out
how to do that in python.

Jeff

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'Andrew Lynch' via N8VEM

2015-07-24 21:07:58 UTC

Hi Alan

How is the wiki transition coming along?

Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so I can shut down the pbworks wiki?

After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as well.

Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.

Andrew Lynch

From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Hightower
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?

See inline.

On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:

Hi Alan,

Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
which will be installed?

There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux) and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared. However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content producers and maintainers.

I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.

Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
projects' design documents.

Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):

I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can complete this weekend.

Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And open new account creation.

Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration and updating of legacy project content.

That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.

It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in

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jdavis

2015-07-25 08:28:45 UTC

Andrew, we need someone besides you to be an admin on the pbwiki - I might
be able to export all the content easily if I were. Can you make me an
admin again?

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
>
>
> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>
>
>
> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>
>
>
> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
> well.
>
>
>
> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>
>
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
>
>
> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:> [mailto:
> ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>] *On Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
>
>
>
>
> See inline.
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
>
>
>
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
> producers and maintainers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
>
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of
> technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of
> this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there
> are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
>
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
> complete this weekend.
>
>
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current site.
> 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And
> open new account creation.
>
>
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
> and updating of legacy project content.
>
>
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
>
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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jdavis

2015-07-25 08:49:54 UTC

Andrew, I forgot to mention: on pbwiki I'm user ***@soupwizard . com.

On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 1:28:45 AM UTC-7, jdavis wrote:
>
> Andrew, we need someone besides you to be an admin on the pbwiki - I might
> be able to export all the content easily if I were. Can you make me an
> admin again?
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
>> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>>
>>
>>
>> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Lynch
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
>> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> See inline.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
>> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
>> which will be installed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
>> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
>> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
>> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
>> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
>> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
>> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
>> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
>> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
>> producers and maintainers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
>> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>>
>>
>> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
>> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
>> projects' design documents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties
>> of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part
>> of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless
>> there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
>> complete this weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current
>> site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page.
>> 5) And open new account creation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
>> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
>> and updating of legacy project content.
>>
>>
>>
>> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
>> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
>> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
>> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
>> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-27 00:27:22 UTC

As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups
group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and
information from the past.

Andrew B

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
>
>
> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>
>
>
> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>
>
>
> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
> well.
>
>
>
> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>
>
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
>
>
> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:> [mailto:
> ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>] *On Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
>
>
>
>
> See inline.
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
>
>
>
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
> producers and maintainers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
>
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of
> technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of
> this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there
> are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
>
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
> complete this weekend.
>
>
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current site.
> 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And
> open new account creation.
>
>
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
> and updating of legacy project content.
>
>
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
>
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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jdavis

2015-07-27 07:14:26 UTC

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 5:27:22 PM UTC-7, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups
> group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and
> information from the past.
>
> Andrew B
>

Maybe this (or something like it) would work:
https://github.com/icy/google-group-crawler

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yoda

2015-07-27 14:42:57 UTC

Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon Google
Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups
> group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and
> information from the past.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
>> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>>
>>
>>
>> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Lynch
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
>> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> See inline.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
>> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
>> which will be installed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
>> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
>> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
>> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
>> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
>> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
>> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
>> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
>> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
>> producers and maintainers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
>> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>>
>>
>> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
>> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
>> projects' design documents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties
>> of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part
>> of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless
>> there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
>> complete this weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current
>> site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page.
>> 5) And open new account creation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
>> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
>> and updating of legacy project content.
>>
>>
>>
>> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
>> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
>> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
>> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
>> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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John Coffman

2015-07-27 14:49:22 UTC

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
On 07/27/2015 07:42 AM, yoda wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:fd864f13-ae30-4da1-ac2b-***@googlegroups.com"
type="cite">not abandon Google Groups - it is working so why not
leave it alone?</blockquote>
<br>
Amen,<br>
  --John<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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Andrew Lynch

2015-07-27 14:54:29 UTC

There are reasons but at a bare minimum to disassociate N8VEM from the project name.Â Consolidation under a new project website using common tools.Â Reduce maintenance overhead.Â Reduce dependence on big data and the obvious privacy concerns.Â I am stuck with an ongoing time consuming responsibility with no effective way to delegate.Â It is well past time to transition to a separate project that can support the community properly preferably one consolidated site that supports both the wiki and the mailing lists.
PBWorks and Google Groups are poor choices I made at the outset when I thought the group was small and manageable.Â It turns out the project grew uncontrollably and led to multiple scaling problems.Â It is time to scrap this kludge iteration and redesign the project.Â It happens and its normal.

Â From: yoda <***@r2d2.org>
To: N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
Cc: ***@yahoo.com; ***@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?

Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon Google Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and information from the past.
Andrew B

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
Hi AlanÂ How is the wiki transition coming along?Â Â Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so I can shut down the pbworks wiki?Â After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as well.Â Â Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.Â Andrew LynchÂ From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Hightower
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?Â Â See inline.Â On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
HiÂ Alan,

DoÂ youÂ haveÂ someÂ hostingÂ constraintsÂ inÂ termsÂ ofÂ monthlyÂ bandwidth
and/orÂ diskÂ storage?Â Also,Â doÂ youÂ haveÂ yourÂ preferencesÂ forÂ theÂ CMS
whichÂ willÂ beÂ installed?
Â Â There are constraints. Â Years ago I found it less costly just to lease virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in my hatchback. Â I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding raid sets at 3am downtown. Â I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux) and plan on a few others near term. Â So the resources will be shared. Â However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. Â My preference is Wordpress. Â The on-going discussion has pressed the pause button in recent weeks. Â It ultimately comes down to the page content producers and maintainers.Â Â Â
IÂ guessÂ thatÂ it'sÂ betterÂ toÂ startÂ soonerÂ orÂ laterÂ toÂ copy/migrateÂ some
contentÂ toÂ theÂ newÂ server,Â asÂ otherwiseÂ we'llÂ neverÂ completeÂ itÂ :D.
RegardingÂ theÂ hostname:Â itÂ looksÂ likeÂ thisÂ isÂ stillÂ anÂ on-going
discussion,Â butÂ IÂ thinkÂ itÂ shouldn'tÂ stopÂ theÂ migrationÂ ofÂ the
projects'Â designÂ documents.
Â Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of technical inertia. Â If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Â Unless there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):Â I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can complete this weekend.Â Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. Â 2) Migrate the current site. Â 3) Re-org a few basic things. Â 4) Lift the underconstruction page. Â 5) And open new account creation. Â Â Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book page(s) for different level(s) of users. Â 7) Start helping in the migration and updating of legacy project content.Â That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on other personal projects. Â I can devote much more time during that period.Â It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Â Even if the only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. Â I've discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original boards and the summary was the page had not been updated inÂ Â --
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Alan Hightower

2015-07-27 15:17:52 UTC

I need to do an OS upgrade on the server this week. I'm waiting on that.
Tentatively it should be done by tomorrow. Then I can start moving data
over during this week.

It would be greatly beneficial to get a dump of site data in bulk - if
only to use as a check-list for content migration. If someone with admin
rights could export via the settings panel or otherwise get a bulk tar,
it would save some time. If not, I believe I can inject my
authentication cookie into a wget crawl and download most of the content
direct.

-Alan

On 2015-07-27 10:54, Andrew Lynch wrote:

> There are reasons but at a bare minimum to disassociate N8VEM from the project name. Consolidation under a new project website using common tools. Reduce maintenance overhead. Reduce dependence on big data and the obvious privacy concerns. I am stuck with an ongoing time consuming responsibility with no effective way to delegate. It is well past time to transition to a separate project that can support the community properly preferably one consolidated site that supports both the wiki and the mailing lists.
>
> PBWorks and Google Groups are poor choices I made at the outset when I thought the group was small and manageable. It turns out the project grew uncontrollably and led to multiple scaling problems. It is time to scrap this kludge iteration and redesign the project. It happens and its normal.
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: yoda <***@r2d2.org>
> TO: N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
> CC: ***@yahoo.com; ***@gmail.com
> SENT: Monday, July 27, 2015 10:42 AM
> SUBJECT: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon Google Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?
>
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and information from the past.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>
> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>
> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as well.
>
> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
> FROM: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Alan Hightower
> SENT: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
> TO: ***@googlegroups.com
> SUBJECT: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> See inline.
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux) and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared. However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content producers and maintainers.
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can complete this weekend.
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org [1]. 2) Migrate the current site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And open new account creation.
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration and updating of legacy project content.
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem [2].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3].

--
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Groups "N8VEM" group.
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Links:
------
[1] http://retrosbc.org/
[2] http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
[3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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Alan Hightower

2015-07-27 15:27:42 UTC

Also a couple California yahoo's named John M. and Gary K. sent me a
huge stack of S100 boards this week too. They suckered me with a fun
distraction. Rev.P2 of the 4GB S100 RAM boards came in this week from
the board house. So I will need to spend some time getting them up and
running with the 386 jig board. It's just a hobby for me too. I have a
pretty demanding day job during the week.

-Alan

On 2015-07-27 11:17, Alan Hightower wrote:

> I need to do an OS upgrade on the server this week. I'm waiting on that. Tentatively it should be done by tomorrow. Then I can start moving data over during this week.
>
> It would be greatly beneficial to get a dump of site data in bulk - if only to use as a check-list for content migration. If someone with admin rights could export via the settings panel or otherwise get a bulk tar, it would save some time. If not, I believe I can inject my authentication cookie into a wget crawl and download most of the content direct.
>
> -Alan
>
> On 2015-07-27 10:54, Andrew Lynch wrote:
>
> There are reasons but at a bare minimum to disassociate N8VEM from the project name. Consolidation under a new project website using common tools. Reduce maintenance overhead. Reduce dependence on big data and the obvious privacy concerns. I am stuck with an ongoing time consuming responsibility with no effective way to delegate. It is well past time to transition to a separate project that can support the community properly preferably one consolidated site that supports both the wiki and the mailing lists.
>
> PBWorks and Google Groups are poor choices I made at the outset when I thought the group was small and manageable. It turns out the project grew uncontrollably and led to multiple scaling problems. It is time to scrap this kludge iteration and redesign the project. It happens and its normal.
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: yoda <***@r2d2.org>
> TO: N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
> CC: ***@yahoo.com; ***@gmail.com
> SENT: Monday, July 27, 2015 10:42 AM
> SUBJECT: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon Google Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?
>
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and information from the past.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>
> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>
> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as well.
>
> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
> FROM: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Alan Hightower
> SENT: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
> TO: ***@googlegroups.com
> SUBJECT: Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> See inline.
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux) and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared. However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content producers and maintainers.
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can complete this weekend.
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org [1]. 2) Migrate the current site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page. 5) And open new account creation.
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration and updating of legacy project content.
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
> --
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Links:
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[2] http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-27 17:00:25 UTC

Lets spread the work around a bit - I have a small private Google Group
from a project I did a while back that is now defunct. It probably has
15-20 topics on it.

I'll take point on trying different methods of getting the data out of a
Google Group using that group as a test, then moving on to the main N8VEM
group.

I'll get back to everyone by the end of the week.

Andrew B.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Also a couple California yahoo's named John M. and Gary K. sent me a huge
> stack of S100 boards this week too. They suckered me with a fun
> distraction. Rev.P2 of the 4GB S100 RAM boards came in this week from the
> board house. So I will need to spend some time getting them up and running
> with the 386 jig board. It's just a hobby for me too. I have a pretty
> demanding day job during the week.
>
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-27 11:17, Alan Hightower wrote:
>
> I need to do an OS upgrade on the server this week. I'm waiting on that.
> Tentatively it should be done by tomorrow. Then I can start moving data
> over during this week.
>
>
>
> It would be greatly beneficial to get a dump of site data in bulk - if
> only to use as a check-list for content migration. If someone with admin
> rights could export via the settings panel or otherwise get a bulk tar, it
> would save some time. If not, I believe I can inject my authentication
> cookie into a wget crawl and download most of the content direct.
>
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-07-27 10:54, Andrew Lynch wrote:
>
>
> There are reasons but at a bare minimum to disassociate N8VEM from the
> project name. Consolidation under a new project website using common
> tools. Reduce maintenance overhead. Reduce dependence on big data and the
> obvious privacy concerns. I am stuck with an ongoing time consuming
> responsibility with no effective way to delegate. It is well past time to
> transition to a separate project that can support the community properly
> preferably one consolidated site that supports both the wiki and the
> mailing lists.
>
> PBWorks and Google Groups are poor choices I made at the outset when I
> thought the group was small and manageable. It turns out the project grew
> uncontrollably and led to multiple scaling problems. It is time to scrap
> this kludge iteration and redesign the project. It happens and its normal.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* yoda <***@r2d2.org>
> *To:* N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
> *Cc:* ***@yahoo.com; ***@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 10:42 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon
> Google Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups
> group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and
> information from the past.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>
> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>
> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
> well.
>
> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
>
> See inline.
>
> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
> which will be installed?
>
>
>
> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
> producers and maintainers.
>
>
>
>
> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>
> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
> projects' design documents.
>
>
> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties
> of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part
> of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless
> there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>
> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
> complete this weekend.
>
> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current
> site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page.
> 5) And open new account creation.
>
> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
> and updating of legacy project content.
>
> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>
> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
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> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
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>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-28 05:55:35 UTC

Google made some changes to their site, so the Crawler bash script doesn't
work anymore.

However the example links the author provides which allow for crawling a
Google Group and getting all the messages in text form DO still work (just
the logic of the script needs to change - the text-only link used to return
all topics in one giant list and now it's broken up into 20 topics/page).

Since I am not a super-linux-bash-script user, I will probably use the
example links provided by the author to create a new, python-based scraper
script that will first build a list of all of the topics, then get the
messages from each topic. One folder per topic. (The current script just
dumps all the messages in one folder, I think one-folder-per-topic makes
more sense).

Then we can use something like http://www.mhonarc.org/ to create an
HTML-ized archive of the old groups for posterity.

Andrew B.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Andrew Bingham <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lets spread the work around a bit - I have a small private Google Group
> from a project I did a while back that is now defunct. It probably has
> 15-20 topics on it.
>
> I'll take point on trying different methods of getting the data out of a
> Google Group using that group as a test, then moving on to the main N8VEM
> group.
>
> I'll get back to everyone by the end of the week.
>
> Andrew B.
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Alan Hightower <***@alanlee.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Also a couple California yahoo's named John M. and Gary K. sent me a huge
>> stack of S100 boards this week too. They suckered me with a fun
>> distraction. Rev.P2 of the 4GB S100 RAM boards came in this week from the
>> board house. So I will need to spend some time getting them up and running
>> with the 386 jig board. It's just a hobby for me too. I have a pretty
>> demanding day job during the week.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-07-27 11:17, Alan Hightower wrote:
>>
>> I need to do an OS upgrade on the server this week. I'm waiting on
>> that. Tentatively it should be done by tomorrow. Then I can start moving
>> data over during this week.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be greatly beneficial to get a dump of site data in bulk - if
>> only to use as a check-list for content migration. If someone with admin
>> rights could export via the settings panel or otherwise get a bulk tar, it
>> would save some time. If not, I believe I can inject my authentication
>> cookie into a wget crawl and download most of the content direct.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-07-27 10:54, Andrew Lynch wrote:
>>
>>
>> There are reasons but at a bare minimum to disassociate N8VEM from the
>> project name. Consolidation under a new project website using common
>> tools. Reduce maintenance overhead. Reduce dependence on big data and the
>> obvious privacy concerns. I am stuck with an ongoing time consuming
>> responsibility with no effective way to delegate. It is well past time to
>> transition to a separate project that can support the community properly
>> preferably one consolidated site that supports both the wiki and the
>> mailing lists.
>>
>> PBWorks and Google Groups are poor choices I made at the outset when I
>> thought the group was small and manageable. It turns out the project grew
>> uncontrollably and led to multiple scaling problems. It is time to scrap
>> this kludge iteration and redesign the project. It happens and its normal.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* yoda <***@r2d2.org>
>> *To:* N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
>> *Cc:* ***@yahoo.com; ***@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 10:42 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>>
>> Thought the discussion was only to get off of PBworks - not abandon
>> Google Groups - it is working so why not leave it alone?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:27:22 PM UTC-5, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>>
>> As far as I can tell there is no way to get data out of a Google Groups
>> group, so if these get shut down we will loose all of the posts and
>> information from the past.
>>
>> Andrew B
>>
>> On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:07:55 PM UTC-7, lynchaj wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan
>>
>> How is the wiki transition coming along?
>>
>> Do you have an estimated date for a fully operational replacement site so
>> I can shut down the pbworks wiki?
>>
>> After the wiki is transferred we need a plan to move the mailing lists as
>> well.
>>
>> Once the new site is working it should be straight forward.
>>
>> Andrew Lynch
>>
>> *From:* ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Alan Hightower
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:11 PM
>> *To:* ***@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM: 19869] n8vem homepage requiring login?
>>
>>
>> See inline.
>>
>> On 2015-07-15 11:09, Nikolay Dimitrov wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you have some hosting constraints in terms of monthly bandwidth
>> and/or disk storage? Also, do you have your preferences for the CMS
>> which will be installed?
>>
>>
>>
>> There are constraints. Years ago I found it less costly just to lease
>> virtual servers (LKVM, etc) rather than hauling my own 1U racks downtown in
>> my hatchback. I figured it out after the second or third time rebuilding
>> raid sets at 3am downtown. I host a few sites on the same machine (Linux)
>> and plan on a few others near term. So the resources will be shared.
>> However I don't see the bandwidth or disk-storage of this group causing
>> undue load - even if also hosting git/svn, mailman, and other services. My
>> preference is Wordpress. The on-going discussion has pressed the pause
>> button in recent weeks. It ultimately comes down to the page content
>> producers and maintainers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess that it's better to start sooner or later to copy/migrate some
>> content to the new server, as otherwise we'll never complete it :D.
>>
>> Regarding the hostname: it looks like this is still an on-going
>> discussion, but I think it shouldn't stop the migration of the
>> projects' design documents.
>>
>>
>> Fundamentally correct but I am well versed in the scientific properties
>> of technical inertia. If we're mostly done with the open discussion part
>> of this, the best way forward is just to take a lead and do it. Unless
>> there are any objections (prefer to reply direct and privately):
>>
>> I need to do a planned maintenance to the current web-host which I can
>> complete this weekend.
>>
>> Next week: 1) I will register retrosbc.org. 2) Migrate the current
>> site. 3) Re-org a few basic things. 4) Lift the underconstruction page.
>> 5) And open new account creation.
>>
>> Follow-on week: 6) I will put together the start of a site hand-book
>> page(s) for different level(s) of users. 7) Start helping in the migration
>> and updating of legacy project content.
>>
>> That same week is a bit of a sabbatical from by 9-5 to play catch-up on
>> other personal projects. I can devote much more time during that period.
>>
>> It would be nice to designate a page owner for every page. Even if the
>> only duty is taking content off-line so it doesn't confuse other. I've
>> discussed a few pages with people involved in the creation of the original
>> boards and the summary was the page had not been updated in
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "N8VEM" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-28 17:20:06 UTC

Hi Andrew,

On 07/28/2015 08:55 AM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> Google made some changes to their site, so the Crawler bash script
> doesn't work anymore.

Cases like this just reinforce my believes that only libre tools
maintained by the community can best serve the community's needs, and
not stuff from commercial organizations.

Mailman works great for discussions, web-archives are opened very
quickly (especially when compared to Google groups), and we can also
submit patches for review. In long-term this could be a great successor
of Google groups :D.

Kind regards,
Nikolay

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Vince Mulhollon

2015-07-07 13:39:05 UTC

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 2:39:12 AM UTC-5, picmaster wrote:
>
> probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel
>

The feature list requests, like file storage, version control, wiki, all
kinds of interesting access control, issue/bug/wishlist trackers, sound
much like github. Which is free, and if/when it croaks you just upload
your git repo somewhere else. Its somewhat more standardized than more CMS.

Its not like sourceforge 20 years ago, there's no slow human approval, just
create your account and start making repos for projects.

Their business model is oriented around paying money for private repos and
enterprise features (ldap integration etc) which ironically is the problem
we're trying to avoid, so that fits pretty well. github: "You can't keep
stuff secret from the general public requiring logins unless you send us
great piles of money" us: "um OK then".

Version control is nice. Imagine "git checkout v03b" and you get a full
file set for version 03b of some cpu board.

github has optional team/group collaborative features, which is nice,
everyone has to drop out occasionally (I'm in deep hibernate mode for
exactly seven more weeks) and this works pretty well to prevent blockages
and getting stuck.

WRT overloading github, "github big" is like google's material design repo
with 4000 participants. I think we'd be a bit under the radar even with a
couple orders of magnitude of growth. They host torvalds/linux with 5204
contributors and half a million commits, the famous emacs mirror, etc...
We're not going to be shut down for overloading their servers LOL.

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 14:40:23 UTC

Hi Vince,

On 07/07/2015 04:39 PM, Vince Mulhollon wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 2:39:12 AM UTC-5, picmaster wrote:
>
> probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel
>
>
> The feature list requests, like file storage, version control, wiki, all
> kinds of interesting access control, issue/bug/wishlist trackers, sound
> much like github. Which is free, and if/when it croaks you just upload
> your git repo somewhere else. Its somewhat more standardized than more CMS.

I was not sure and just checked this - indeed Github allows adding
collaborators to a personal repository.

Btw Github doesn't like binary blobs, and if the amount of blobs stored
in the project start exceeding "some practical limit", it will attract
their attention. Here's an extract from their policies. Quote:

"File and repository size limitations

We recommend repositories be kept under 1GB each. This limit is easy to
stay within if large files are kept out of the repository. If your
repository exceeds 1GB, you might receive a polite email from GitHub
Support requesting that you reduce the size of the repository to bring
it back down.

In addition, we place a strict limit of files exceeding 100 MB in size."

End of quote.

The binary blobs tend to pile-up when having multiple revisions, so I'm
not sure this will work in long-term. The last thing we need is people
worrying whether they'll exceed some storage quotas.

Otherwise, Github is a wonderful tool to collaborate on source projects.

Regards,
Nikolay

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-07 15:08:00 UTC

Yeah I think that's the big issue is that KiCad files, board layout .pdfs,
etc are all Binary Blobs as far as github goes. This would also make
syncing a local copy of the repository very bandwidth and HDD space
intensive vs the "download the file you want" model.

I think we need some way to edit pages for different boards,

I have some experience with Wordpress and I don't think it's the best
choice for this, it's more tuned for one producer (or a small group of
producers) -> many viewers/consumers type of websites than collaborative
sites like this project with many people all changing content, adding
pages, etc. I think we'd want some kind of a wiki, and some kind of way to
store files in a directory structure. Maybe a forum, if we want to get off
of Google Groups, but Google Groups seems to be working pretty well at the
moment.

Andrew B.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 7:40:27 AM UTC-7, picmaster wrote:
>
> Hi Vince,
>
> On 07/07/2015 04:39 PM, Vince Mulhollon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 2:39:12 AM UTC-5, picmaster wrote:
> >
> > probably we don't have to reinvent the wheel
> >
> >
> > The feature list requests, like file storage, version control, wiki, all
> > kinds of interesting access control, issue/bug/wishlist trackers, sound
> > much like github. Which is free, and if/when it croaks you just upload
> > your git repo somewhere else. Its somewhat more standardized than more
> CMS.
>
> I was not sure and just checked this - indeed Github allows adding
> collaborators to a personal repository.
>
> Btw Github doesn't like binary blobs, and if the amount of blobs stored
> in the project start exceeding "some practical limit", it will attract
> their attention. Here's an extract from their policies. Quote:
>
>
> "File and repository size limitations
>
> We recommend repositories be kept under 1GB each. This limit is easy to
> stay within if large files are kept out of the repository. If your
> repository exceeds 1GB, you might receive a polite email from GitHub
> Support requesting that you reduce the size of the repository to bring
> it back down.
>
> In addition, we place a strict limit of files exceeding 100 MB in size."
>
>
> End of quote.
>
> The binary blobs tend to pile-up when having multiple revisions, so I'm
> not sure this will work in long-term. The last thing we need is people
> worrying whether they'll exceed some storage quotas.
>
> Otherwise, Github is a wonderful tool to collaborate on source projects.
>
> Regards,
> Nikolay
>

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Nikolay Dimitrov

2015-07-07 16:46:48 UTC

Hi Andrew,

On 07/07/2015 06:08 PM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
> Yeah I think that's the big issue is that KiCad files, board layout
> .pdfs, etc are all Binary Blobs as far as github goes. This would also
> make syncing a local copy of the repository very bandwidth and HDD space
> intensive vs the "download the file you want" model.

You can download only the branch tip with "--depth=1" which is extremely
fast.

>
> I think we need some way to edit pages for different boards,
>
> I have some experience with Wordpress and I don't think it's the best
> choice for this, it's more tuned for one producer (or a small group of
> producers) -> many viewers/consumers type of websites than collaborative
> sites like this project with many people all changing content, adding
> pages, etc. I think we'd want some kind of a wiki, and some kind of way

Yep, per-user permissions would be great to have.

> to store files in a directory structure. Maybe a forum, if we want to
> get off of Google Groups, but Google Groups seems to be working pretty
> well at the moment.

I would trade Google Groups for the good old mailmain any day :D.

>
> Andrew B.

Regards,
Nikolay

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Alan Hightower

2015-06-19 19:50:58 UTC

If anyone other than Andrew is an administrator, there should be a
"Settings" tab to the right of "Wiki" and "Pages & Files" on the main
tab bar. It will have an export option if the site supports it. Let me
know if you find it. I've looked at the wiki source for quite a few
pages and it seems straight forward to fixup the page references from PB
format to another. I would just be nice to a) do it in an automated way,
b) not have to pull the 4500 files out individually, and c) be able to
preserve meta data about both pages and files (revision histories). So
look for the export button if you are an admin.

-Alan

On 2015-06-08 23:44, Andrew Bingham wrote:

> It seems like there is only an "export" feature for certain versions of their service, and the "export" feature is only available to Administrators which probably means Andrew L. So it seems like it'd be difficult to get any of our pages or files "out" of PBWiki without some of Andrew L's time to figure out if our version of PBWorks supports "exports" and to do that if it is possible.
>
> And once we do "export", its not clear the file format is "open" so it could be "imported" into a freely available wiki software....
>
> As far as getting new hosting, the N8VEM name, is, I believe, Andrew L's amateur radio callsign so we should probably get his okay before attempting any relocation.
>
> I'd gladly donate $5 each month (as I do for the Orbiter Simulator Forums) to cover some hosting though.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 7:45:42 AM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
> I can provide hosting if needed. Do you have any ballpark on the traffic volume?
>
> -Alan
>
> On 2015-06-01 15:49, John Coffman wrote: There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the "commercial" nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and sold. The hobbyist nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep hosting us. But then the volume of data on the site exceeded "free" hosting status. Donations were solicited, PBworks was paid, and the site remained, with a very generous disk quota.
>
> I am unaware of the current payment status for the site. Andrew, are you there???
>
> --John

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Andrew Bingham

2015-06-22 07:39:26 UTC

I would be concerned that if one of us sat and tried to pull out all the
files, PBWiki might decide to just shut down the wiki. We don't really
know what's going on with it. If the export option isn't available, the
best thing to do might be to create a new folder structure and move things
over one at a time (very time consuming). Another issue with getting
things one at a time, would be if people keep changing things - we would
need some kind of cut-over date.

If we have an "Education" PBWiki we might be able to pay to upgrade to the
"Classroom" PBWiki which would enable the export option. However given
PBWiki's description of what their Education/Classroom service is/was
usually used for, even the Export might well be many more MBs than what
they usually intend to be Exported, which might create issues.

I do have 300mbps internet and a 6TB RAIDZ2 array that is redundant against
2 drive failures so if downloading everything one-at-a-time is a way we
want to go I could probably offer a couple hours a week to work on. But I
think the most effective way to do that would be to delete things from the
PBWiki as they get moved over so we can keep track of what still needs to
be moved - which would create a lengthy transition and might upset people
who are users of the PBWiki but maybe don't read this group to know what is
going on.....

Andrew B.

On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 12:50:56 PM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>
>
>
> If anyone other than Andrew is an administrator, there should be a
> "Settings" tab to the right of "Wiki" and "Pages & Files" on the main tab
> bar. It will have an export option if the site supports it. Let me know
> if you find it. I've looked at the wiki source for quite a few pages and
> it seems straight forward to fixup the page references from PB format to
> another. I would just be nice to a) do it in an automated way, b) not have
> to pull the 4500 files out individually, and c) be able to preserve meta
> data about both pages and files (revision histories). So look for the
> export button if you are an admin.
>
>
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-06-08 23:44, Andrew Bingham wrote:
>
> It seems like there is only an "export" feature for certain versions of
> their service, and the "export" feature is only available to Administrators
> which probably means Andrew L. So it seems like it'd be difficult to get
> any of our pages or files "out" of PBWiki without some of Andrew L's time
> to figure out if our version of PBWorks supports "exports" and to do that
> if it is possible.
>
> And once we do "export", its not clear the file format is "open" so it
> could be "imported" into a freely available wiki software....
>
> As far as getting new hosting, the N8VEM name, is, I believe, Andrew L's
> amateur radio callsign so we should probably get his okay before attempting
> any relocation.
>
> I'd gladly donate $5 each month (as I do for the Orbiter Simulator Forums)
> to cover some hosting though.
>
> Andrew B
>
> On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 7:45:42 AM UTC-7, AlanH wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I can provide hosting if needed. Do you have any ballpark on the traffic
>> volume?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-06-01 15:49, John Coffman wrote:
>>
>> There was an issue a couple of years back concerning the "commercial"
>> nature of the N8VEM site, since boards are bought and sold. The hobbyist
>> nature of the site convinced PBworks to keep hosting us. But then the
>> volume of data on the site exceeded "free" hosting status. Donations were
>> solicited, PBworks was paid, and the site remained, with a very generous
>> disk quota.
>>
>> I am unaware of the current payment status for the site. Andrew, are you
>> there???
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>>
>>
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John Snowdon

2015-07-09 08:00:22 UTC

If there's still a discussion going on, my vote would be for Github too.

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Christopher Trumbour

2015-07-10 19:24:32 UTC

GitHub would be a really good idea. They offer a "GitHub Pages" service
<https://pages.github.com/> that lets you host a website from a Git repo.
That way, it's easy to push new content, and it's super easy to archive a
complete backup of the website.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:00:22 AM UTC-4, John Snowdon wrote:
>
> If there's still a discussion going on, my vote would be for Github too.
>

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Andrew Bingham

2015-07-14 04:58:45 UTC

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28706454/github-pages-site-size-limits

GitHub is intended for source code storage, not binary files like PDFs,
KiCad files, photos of builder's projects, or binary EEPROM images, all of
which are major components of the 6GB of data on the current N8VEM site.

Andrew B

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:24:33 PM UTC-7, Christopher Trumbour wrote:
>
> GitHub would be a really good idea. They offer a "GitHub Pages" service <
> https://pages.github.com/> that lets you host a website from a Git repo.
> That way, it's easy to push new content, and it's super easy to archive a
> complete backup of the website.
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:00:22 AM UTC-4, John Snowdon wrote:
>>
>> If there's still a discussion going on, my vote would be for Github too.
>>
>

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Tom Lafleur

2015-07-14 11:55:27 UTC

All these file type can be stored on GitHub... Many people do it to document the source code

i~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~i

Tom Lafleur
(858) 759-9692

> On Jul 13, 2015, at 10:58 PM, Andrew Bingham <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28706454/github-pages-site-size-limits
>
> GitHub is intended for source code storage, not binary files like PDFs, KiCad files, photos of builder's projects, or binary EEPROM images, all of which are major components of the 6GB of data on the current N8VEM site.
>
> Andrew B
>
>> On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:24:33 PM UTC-7, Christopher Trumbour wrote:
>> GitHub would be a really good idea. They offer a "GitHub Pages" service <https://pages.github.com/> that lets you host a website from a Git repo. That way, it's easy to push new content, and it's super easy to archive a complete backup of the website.
>>
>>> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:00:22 AM UTC-4, John Snowdon wrote:
>>> If there's still a discussion going on, my vote would be for Github too.
>
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Anthony DeStefano

2015-07-14 12:16:13 UTC

A small amount of them can be, but if your repository is mostly large
binary files github will disable your project. Git is not very good at
keeping history of non-text files and the repository size will blow up.

My opinion is that git is not a good format for a large repository of
the files from this group. A better option for git would be to use it
for an individual project and then dump the results out.

--
Anthony DeStefano
***@fastmail.fm

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015, at 07:55 AM, Tom Lafleur wrote:
> All these file type can be stored on GitHub... Many people do it to document the source code
>
>
>
>
> i~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~~~ _/) ~~i
>
> Tom Lafleur
> (858) 759-9692
>
> On Jul 13, 2015, at 10:58 PM, Andrew Bingham <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28706454/github-pages-site-size-limits
>>
>> GitHub is intended for source code storage, not binary files like PDFs, KiCad files, photos of builder's projects, or binary EEPROM images, all of which are major components of the 6GB of data on the current N8VEM site.
>>
>> Andrew B
>>
>> On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:24:33 PM UTC-7, Christopher Trumbour wrote:
>>> GitHub would be a really good idea. They offer a "GitHub Pages" service <https://pages.github.com/> that lets you host a website from a Git repo. That way, it's easy to push new content, and it's super easy to archive a complete backup of the website.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:00:22 AM UTC-4, John Snowdon wrote:
>>>> If there's still a discussion going on, my vote would be for Github too.
>>

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David West

2015-08-27 12:48:19 UTC

Hi,
I'm new so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that is all
resolved but I've not seen any mention of a solution anywhere.

What is happening with this?
Are their plans to relocate the project or has it been decided to stay with
PBWorks?

I must say that it is very disconcerting for someone like myself to join a
group that appears to have an large and very talented membership (hoping
some of the talent might rub off) only to find that the examples of all
your hard work is hidden.

I have applied with pbworks for access to the wiki, hopefully that will be
granted and I can peruse the projects, and hopefully build some.

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 11:14:27 PM UTC+1, John Snowdon wrote:
>
> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/ today to review the
> parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login
> regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
>
> Has this changed in the last few days?
>

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'Andrew Lynch' via N8VEM

2015-08-28 10:58:05 UTC

The plan was toÂ move to aÂ new siteÂ for the wiki and mailing lists but apparentlyÂ its either stalledÂ or withered.Â I wouldÂ still like to disassociate the N8VEM name from this projectÂ so it and myself can move onÂ in our separate ways.
Â From: David West <***@regencyitc.co.uk>
To: N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:48 AM
Subject: [N8VEM: 20044] Re: n8vem homepage requiring login?

Hi,
I'm new so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that is all resolved but I've not seen any mention of a solution anywhere.

What is happening with this?
Are their plans to relocate the project or has it been decided to stay with PBWorks?

I must say that it is very disconcerting for someone like myself to join a group that appears to have an large and very talented membership (hoping some of the talent might rub off) only to find that the examples of all your hard work is hidden.

I have applied with pbworks for access to the wiki, hopefully that will be granted and I can peruse the projects, and hopefully build some.

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 11:14:27 PM UTC+1, John Snowdon wrote:
Just tried to get on toÂ http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks. com/ today to review the parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
Has this changed in the last few days?
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Alan Hightower

2015-08-28 12:50:19 UTC

My apologies. Work demands have been pretty high lately. And most of my
free time has been consumed with personal issues. I will re-prioritize
this soon.

-Alan

On 2015-08-28 06:58, 'Andrew Lynch' via N8VEM wrote:

> The plan was to move to a new site for the wiki and mailing lists but apparently its either stalled or withered. I would still like to disassociate the N8VEM name from this project so it and myself can move on in our separate ways.

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Andrew Bingham

2015-08-28 21:49:38 UTC

I am about halfway through writing a Python script that will scrape the
contents of the Google Groups into standard .txt files per email that can
then be uploaded into an archive. I have the proof of concept done to
navigate from Group->List of Threads->List of Messages in a Thread->Text
File for 1 message and am just working on the Python code to traverse the
entire tree and get ALL of the data out of the groups.

I've been out on vacation but I should be able to finish it when I get
back.

I did also look into the help for the one Google Group I am an Owner on,
and you can change the name, email address, and Owners of a Google Group.
If the users would rather continue to use this discussion venue, I'd be
happy to take over Owner rights of the Google Groups and we could rename it
accordingly to remove the N8VEM name from it. This might be a good
solution for the -S100 group too, which already has a very strong website
presence run by John M.

Andrew B

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 7:01:01 AM UTC-4, lynchaj wrote:
>
> The plan was to move to a new site for the wiki and mailing lists but
> apparently its either stalled or withered. I would still like to
> disassociate the N8VEM name from this project so it and myself can move
> on in our separate ways.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* David West <***@regencyitc.co.uk <javascript:>>
> *To:* N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:48 AM
> *Subject:* [N8VEM: 20044] Re: n8vem homepage requiring login?
>
> Hi,
> I'm new so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that is all
> resolved but I've not seen any mention of a solution anywhere.
>
> What is happening with this?
> Are their plans to relocate the project or has it been decided to stay
> with PBWorks?
>
> I must say that it is very disconcerting for someone like myself to join a
> group that appears to have an large and very talented membership (hoping
> some of the talent might rub off) only to find that the examples of all
> your hard work is hidden.
>
> I have applied with pbworks for access to the wiki, hopefully that will be
> granted and I can peruse the projects, and hopefully build some.
>
>
>
> On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 11:14:27 PM UTC+1, John Snowdon wrote:
>
> Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks. com/
> <http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/> today to review the parts list for a
> couple of boards and it's asking for member login regardless of the URL
> used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).
>
> Has this changed in the last few days?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "N8VEM" group.
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> email to n8vem+***@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
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>
>
>

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Dan Werner

2015-08-29 16:57:03 UTC

If we can change the name and disassociate the existing owners, continuing to use the google group seems like an acceptable solution.

From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Bingham
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 4:50 PM
To: N8VEM
Cc: ***@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 20049] Re: n8vem homepage requiring login?

I am about halfway through writing a Python script that will scrape the contents of the Google Groups into standard .txt files per email that can then be uploaded into an archive. I have the proof of concept done to navigate from Group->List of Threads->List of Messages in a Thread->Text File for 1 message and am just working on the Python code to traverse the entire tree and get ALL of the data out of the groups.

I've been out on vacation but I should be able to finish it when I get back.

I did also look into the help for the one Google Group I am an Owner on, and you can change the name, email address, and Owners of a Google Group. If the users would rather continue to use this discussion venue, I'd be happy to take over Owner rights of the Google Groups and we could rename it accordingly to remove the N8VEM name from it. This might be a good solution for the -S100 group too, which already has a very strong website presence run by John M.

Andrew B

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 7:01:01 AM UTC-4, lynchaj wrote:

The plan was to move to a new site for the wiki and mailing lists but apparently its either stalled or withered. I would still like to disassociate the N8VEM name from this project so it and myself can move on in our separate ways.

_____

From: David West <***@regencyitc.co.uk <javascript:> >
To: N8VEM <***@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:48 AM
Subject: [N8VEM: 20044] Re: n8vem homepage requiring login?

Hi,
I'm new so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that is all resolved but I've not seen any mention of a solution anywhere.

What is happening with this?
Are their plans to relocate the project or has it been decided to stay with PBWorks?

I must say that it is very disconcerting for someone like myself to join a group that appears to have an large and very talented membership (hoping some of the talent might rub off) only to find that the examples of all your hard work is hidden.

I have applied with pbworks for access to the wiki, hopefully that will be granted and I can peruse the projects, and hopefully build some.

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 11:14:27 PM UTC+1, John Snowdon wrote:

Just tried to get on to http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks. com/ <http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/> today to review the parts list for a couple of boards and it's asking for member login regardless of the URL used (i.e. even for the root level public homepage).

Has this changed in the last few days?

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Martin Heermance

2015-08-31 23:17:08 UTC

I just joined this group to learn more about this project. But all links lead to the PBWorks site which is behind a login. So I set up a PBWorks account and logged in. But I still can't access the content and requested membership.

Will this work, or is the web content out of reach to newbies?

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Andrew Bingham

2015-09-03 06:33:30 UTC

Martin - I think unless Andrew L. (who is only intermittently answering
emails / has other things going on in his life now) approves your request,
you won't be able to get to the web content.

A few of us are working different angles of resolving that now.

Andrew B.

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 3:15:54 AM UTC-7, Martin Heermance wrote:
>
> I just joined this group to learn more about this project. But all links
> lead to the PBWorks site which is behind a login. So I set up a PBWorks
> account and logged in. But I still can't access the content and requested
> membership.
>
> Will this work, or is the web content out of reach to newbies?

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Martin Heermance

2015-09-03 10:15:27 UTC

Thanks for replying. I got an email saying that I have access, so thanks to Andrew or whoever approved me.

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