[N8VEM: 19645] GAL programmer?

Discussion:

Jeff Albrecht

2015-05-23 23:39:30 UTC

Looks like an excuse for me to buy something.

I'm going to build the new V3 IDE S-100 board.

Recently I purchased a Mcumall GQ-4X
<http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282>
looks like it doesn't support programming the
GAL http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002

Any suggestions on hardware to accomplish the programming of the GALs?

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Alan Hightower

2015-05-25 12:54:02 UTC

Permalink

Or I can program them for you and mail them out. Otherwise I'm pretty
sure the cheap Genius 840 USB programmers from China support 16V8s and
22V10s. 'GAL' to me implies Lattice which is overly restrictive. Lots of
companies make them and with some exceptions, the fuse maps are largely
compatible.

-Alan

Post by Jeff Albrecht
Looks like an excuse for me to buy something.
I'm going to build the new V3 IDE S-100 board.
Recently I purchased a Mcumall GQ-4X [1] looks like it doesn't support programming the GAL http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002
Any suggestions on hardware to accomplish the programming of the GALs?
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Links:
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[1]
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282
[2] http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
[3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout

John Coffman

2015-05-25 15:46:18 UTC

Permalink

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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The Genius 840 will program GAL's.  I've been successful with GAL's
from Lattice and Atmel.  However, this programmer has destroyed
29F040 flash chips.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/25/2015 05:54 AM, Alan Hightower wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@alanlee.org"
type="cite">
<p> </p>
<p>Or I can program them for you and mail them out.  Otherwise I'm
pretty sure the cheap Genius 840 USB programmers from China
support 16V8s and 22V10s.   'GAL' to me implies Lattice which is
overly restrictive.  Lots of companies make them and with some
exceptions, the fuse maps are largely compatible.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Alan</p>
<p> </p>
<div> </div>
<p>On 2015-05-23 19:39, Jeff Albrecht wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px
solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px;">
<div dir="ltr">Looks like an excuse for me to buy something. 
<div> </div>
<div>I'm going to build the new V3 IDE S-100 board.<br>
<div> </div>
<div>Recently I purchased a <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282">Mcumall
GQ-4X</a> looks like it doesn't support programming the
GAL <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002">http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Any suggestions on hardware to accomplish the
programming of the GALs? </div>
<div><br>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
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AlecV

2015-05-25 17:19:08 UTC

Permalink

I successfully used TL-866CS (search at e-bay or aliexpress) to programm
Lattice GAL16V8 to add a ROM decoder IC for my Trantor T-130B SCSI adaptor
as described at
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13
It works! JEDEC file is compatible.

Gary Kaufman

2015-05-25 21:35:07 UTC

Permalink

Alec -

I have the TL-866A (same programmer with additional ICSP capabilities).

While I'm impressed at how well it works for most IC's, it does not program
Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly. While they appear to program they will not
verify (and testing on my Needham's EMP-11 confirms that they are not
programmed correctly).

I haven't tested the TL-866 with other 22V10's, but I'd suggest another
programmer for the Lattice parts.

- Gary

Post by AlecV
I successfully used TL-866CS (search at e-bay or aliexpress) to programm
Lattice GAL16V8 to add a ROM decoder IC for my Trantor T-130B SCSI adaptor
as described at
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13
It works! JEDEC file is compatible.

Alan Hightower

2015-05-26 01:16:45 UTC

Permalink

I'm curious, why Lattice? Why not Atmel or other generics? I've
personally never had an issue with Atmels.

-Alan

Post by Gary Kaufman
Alec -
I have the TL-866A (same programmer with additional ICSP capabilities).
While I'm impressed at how well it works for most IC's, it does not program Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly. While they appear to program they will not verify (and testing on my Needham's EMP-11 confirms that they are not programmed correctly).
I haven't tested the TL-866 with other 22V10's, but I'd suggest another programmer for the Lattice parts.
- Gary

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Gary Kaufman

2015-05-26 01:53:17 UTC

Permalink

No reason (that I'm aware of) other than to identify the specific part I
tried to program.

I'm curious, why Lattice? Why not Atmel or other generics? I've
personally never had an issue with Atmels.
-Alan
Alec -
I have the TL-866A (same programmer with additional ICSP capabilities).
While I'm impressed at how well it works for most IC's, it does not
program Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly. While they appear to program they
will not verify (and testing on my Needham's EMP-11 confirms that they are
not programmed correctly).
I haven't tested the TL-866 with other 22V10's, but I'd suggest another
programmer for the Lattice parts.
- Gary

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Anders Carlsson

2015-05-26 07:15:28 UTC

Permalink

I have the TL-866A [..] it does not program Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly.

I've got the TL-866CS just like Alec V, and had to program a few 22V10 chips
for my ZX Spectrum DivIDE interface. I don't know if there were flaws in the
programming, but at least it seemed sufficient to have the interface operate
correctly. However I bought quite a handful of 22V10 chips, of which some
seemed duds and some worked - perhaps here is where the choice of programmer
comes in question or simply the chips that wouldn't erase and program were
damaged.

I've also got the GQ-4X, but as noted it doesn't really support much in
terms of GAL, which is why I added a second programmer to my lineup.

Simply put, there may be a touch of YMMV spice to this soup. If I can
remember later, I can look up exactly which type/brand of GAL chips I used,
but I'm quite sure those were just the same Lattice GAL22V10D as you had
problems with using essentially the same type of programmer.

Best regards

Anders Carlsson

AlecV

2015-05-26 13:45:35 UTC

Permalink

Post by Gary Kaufman
While I'm impressed at how well it works for most IC's, it does not
program Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly.

Consult a supported ICs list:
http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/MiniProSupportList.txt
Lattice GAL22V10D presents in this list and should work.
There are alot of low-quality second-hand cheap IC dealer at e-bay and
aliexpress.
I've bougth a pair of GAL16V8 for 2$ _including_ delivery and dealer send
me 3! ICs
for spare. Fortunately, my ICs work and were programmed successfully.

I have also a whole box of used AMD PALCE and ICT PEEL.
TL-866 can't programm these chips at all.

Gary Kaufman

2015-05-26 19:56:35 UTC

Permalink

I have Lattice GAL22V10B's and D's from several vendors - I've tried the
TL-866A with their V6.10 sofware on three occassions now, and it will
consistently fail the verify portion of programming consistently.

The Needham EMP-11 and EMP-31 programmers will erase/program/verify the
same exact IC's just fine. They also will verify the IC's that were
programmed on the TL-866A are not correct. I've had zero programming
failures with the EMP-11 on probably 40 chips now.

The supported IC list for the TL-866A also has 2716's, yet the TL-866A
only provides 21v.

So, FWIW I really like the TL-866A - it's inexpensive, small and quick to
use. It works perfectly on 2764/128/256/512 and the various EEPROMS I've
used it for. It's my "goto" programmer for quick jobs. But based on my
own personal experience I'd look elsewhere for a reliable GAL programmer
for 22V10's.

Perhaps I'm doing something incorrectly, but I'm just reporting my
experiences. I certainly agree that YMMV.

"Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor, not an Engineer" :)

- Gary

Post by AlecV

Post by Gary Kaufman
While I'm impressed at how well it works for most IC's, it does not
program Lattice GAL22V10D's correctly.

http://www.autoelectric.cn/minipro/MiniProSupportList.txt
Lattice GAL22V10D presents in this list and should work.
There are alot of low-quality second-hand cheap IC dealer at e-bay and
aliexpress.
I've bougth a pair of GAL16V8 for 2$ _including_ delivery and dealer send
me 3! ICs
for spare. Fortunately, my ICs work and were programmed successfully.
I have also a whole box of used AMD PALCE and ICT PEEL.
TL-866 can't programm these chips at all.

Marc Foiret

2015-06-15 10:31:20 UTC

Permalink

Hello, I own the TL-866 and use it to programm GAL16V8. I just have to
change the programming voltage from 16V to 14V.

Post by Jeff Albrecht
Looks like an excuse for me to buy something.
I'm going to build the new V3 IDE S-100 board.
Recently I purchased a Mcumall GQ-4X
<http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282>
looks like it doesn't support programming the GAL
http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002
Any suggestions on hardware to accomplish the programming of the GALs?

Martin Lukasek

2015-06-15 21:15:25 UTC

Permalink

I use GQ-4X for almost everything besides GALs and PROMs. For GALs I bought cheap Genius G540 and built GALBlast http://www.8bity.cz/2013/programator-gal-galblast-1-6/.

Regards

Martin

From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marc Foiret
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:31 PM
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Subject: [N8VEM: 19709] Re: GAL programmer?

Hello, I own the TL-866 and use it to programm GAL16V8. I just have to change the programming voltage from 16V to 14V.

On Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 4:04:19 AM UTC+2, Jeff Albrecht wrote:
Looks like an excuse for me to buy something.

I'm going to build the new V3 IDE S-100 board.

Recently I purchased a Mcumall GQ-4X<http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282> looks like it doesn't support programming the GAL http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2002

Any suggestions on hardware to accomplish the programming of the GALs?

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Gary Kaufman

2015-06-16 03:47:03 UTC

Permalink

Well, tried the TL-866 with Lattice GAL22V10B setting the programming
voltage at 14V, still won't program properly.

- Gary

Post by Marc Foiret
Hello, I own the TL-866 and use it to programm GAL16V8. I just have to
change the programming voltage from 16V to 14V.

Marc Foiret

2015-06-17 09:25:57 UTC

Permalink

I made a test with a GAL22V10D-15LPN and it works :
a) I use wincupl to generate a jed file
b) I use minipro to burn the jed file on the GAL (without having to change
the default programming voltage as I must do with GAL16V8)
c) I test the gurned GAL on a breadboard and got the desired logical
functions.

Do you connect your TL-866 directly to the USB port of your PC or do you
use an USB HUB having it's own power supply ?

Post by Gary Kaufman
Well, tried the TL-866 with Lattice GAL22V10B setting the programming
voltage at 14V, still won't program properly.
- Gary

Post by Marc Foiret
Hello, I own the TL-866 and use it to programm GAL16V8. I just have to
change the programming voltage from 16V to 14V.

Gary Kaufman

2015-06-18 01:41:08 UTC

Permalink

I do wish I could get it to work, I really like this small easy to use
programmer otherwise.

The TL-866 is directly off the PC port, and works fine with other
Eprom/EEprom parts.

I've used the .JED files from various projects on www.s100computer.com
The Lattice GAL22V10B and GAL22V10D parts I have fail to verify with the
TL-866 - and when I check them with a Needham's EMP-11 they are not burned
correctly. The same parts program and verify on the EMP-11

For example, the file
http://www.s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/SMB%20Board/V3_SMB_BRD_GAL.zip
contains a .jed file that burns fine on the Needham's EMP-11 and will
verify on both the TL-866 and EMP-11.

When I program on the TL-866 I get a Verify Error! Addr:000032 Buff_val:0
IC_val:1 message

The TL-866 will erase the GAL22V10B just fine.

I've also tried downloading the V6.13 of the software which has just been
released, no change.

Curious if this file will program and verify on your system?
Are you using Lattice parts?

- Gary

Post by Marc Foiret
a) I use wincupl to generate a jed file
b) I use minipro to burn the jed file on the GAL (without having to change
the default programming voltage as I must do with GAL16V8)
c) I test the gurned GAL on a breadboard and got the desired logical
functions.
Do you connect your TL-866 directly to the USB port of your PC or do you
use an USB HUB having it's own power supply ?

Post by Gary Kaufman
Well, tried the TL-866 with Lattice GAL22V10B setting the programming
voltage at 14V, still won't program properly.
- Gary

Post by Marc Foiret
Hello, I own the TL-866 and use it to programm GAL16V8. I just have to
change the programming voltage from 16V to 14V.