[N8VEM: 19810] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed

[Kip Koon]

Hi Folks,

I want to run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eForth as well. I saw the 68HC11 Old
System files but no schematic was to be found. What would be a good design
for a 68HC11 SBC so I can get this software to run. The files are just
sitting here begging to be used again. :) Any help is most appreciated.
Thanks a bunch.



Kip Koon

<mailto:***@sc.rr.com> ***@sc.rr.com

<http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon>
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

[Alan Cox]

Post by Kip Koon
Hi Folks,
I want to run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eForth as well. I saw the 68HC11

Old System files but no schematic was to be found. What would be a good
design for a 68HC11 SBC so I can get this software to run. The files are
just sitting here begging to be used again. :) Any help is most
appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
Funnily enough I was looking at this and also HD6303 designs last night.
Most of the HC11 designs seem roughly the same core as the handyboard - 32K
DS1235 battery backed RAM, demultiplexor and CPU. Not quite what I was
looking for. The useful DIP HC11 and HC811s are also like gold dust and
while tekmos do clone HC11s they are not DIP nor it seems easy to get via a
supplier.

An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM would
be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(

http://handyboard.com/oldhb/hardware/schematc.html

Alan

[Paul Birkel]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MCU-IC-MOTOROLA-DIP-48-MC68HC11A1P
1PCS MCU IC MOTOROLA DIP-48 MC68HC11A1P
$11.90

Post by Alan Cox

Post by Kip Koon
Hi Folks,
I want to run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eForth as well. I saw the 68HC11

Old System files but no schematic was to be found. What would be a good
design for a 68HC11 SBC so I can get this software to run. The files are
just sitting here begging to be used again. :) Any help is most
appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
Funnily enough I was looking at this and also HD6303 designs last night.
Most of the HC11 designs seem roughly the same core as the handyboard - 32K
DS1235 battery backed RAM, demultiplexor and CPU. Not quite what I was
looking for. The useful DIP HC11 and HC811s are also like gold dust and
while tekmos do clone HC11s they are not DIP nor it seems easy to get via a
supplier.
An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM would
be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(
http://handyboard.com/oldhb/hardware/schematc.html
Alan
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[Earl Baugh]

I think I have a couple sitting in the parts drawer as well. I don't have
any need for them, so if someone gets closer on the board build,
I can get them to someone.

Someone just remind me to check the drawer... :-)

Earl

Post by Paul Birkel
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MCU-IC-MOTOROLA-DIP-48-MC68HC11A1P
1PCS MCU IC MOTOROLA DIP-48 MC68HC11A1P
$11.90

Post by Alan Cox

Post by Kip Koon
Hi Folks,
I want to run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eForth as well. I saw the 68HC11

Old System files but no schematic was to be found. What would be a good
design for a 68HC11 SBC so I can get this software to run. The files are
just sitting here begging to be used again. :) Any help is most
appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
Funnily enough I was looking at this and also HD6303 designs last night.
Most of the HC11 designs seem roughly the same core as the handyboard - 32K
DS1235 battery backed RAM, demultiplexor and CPU. Not quite what I was
looking for. The useful DIP HC11 and HC811s are also like gold dust and
while tekmos do clone HC11s they are not DIP nor it seems easy to get via a
supplier.
An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM would
be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(
http://handyboard.com/oldhb/hardware/schematc.html
Alan
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[Alan Cox]

Yep.. I can find the odd A1P. or A0 which does need more glue and somewhere
to put the monitor but the -9 and the far nicer HC811 at least in the UK
seem to have vanished. The 811 is nice as you can put code high in internal
eeprom and boot from that, which the 11A0 and A1 can't do, although later
A9 can.

[Paul Birkel]

Not then:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/QTY-1x-Motorola-8-Bit-Microcontroller-Unit-MC68HC811E2FN-/131355771165
?

Post by Alan Cox
Yep.. I can find the odd A1P. or A0 which does need more glue and
somewhere to put the monitor but the -9 and the far nicer HC811 at least in
the UK seem to have vanished. The 811 is nice as you can put code high in
internal eeprom and boot from that, which the 11A0 and A1 can't do,
although later A9 can.
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[Alan Cox]

Not DIP and in the USA with a stupendous offered shipping cost. I do
actually know how to use ebay and amazon searches

Alan

[Paul Birkel]

Apologies; forgot the DIP stipulation. Just trying to understand the
applicable nomenclature ... obviously not an area in which I'm
knowledgeable!

Post by Alan Cox
Not DIP and in the USA with a stupendous offered shipping cost. I do
actually know how to use ebay and amazon searches
Alan
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[Alan Cox]

Post by Paul Birkel
Apologies; forgot the DIP stipulation. Just trying to understand the

applicable nomenclature ... obviously not an area in which I'm
knowledgeable!

No offence intended. My understanding is that there is no easy way to use
the recent packaging formats with breadboards or similar.

HC11 nomenclature is usually

A0 - no eeprom or rom
A1 - no rom
A9 - buffalo in ROM

Later A9 can run code from eeprom via the monitor ROM

E has more ROM and replaced A, D is a bit cut down, K can do 1MB and does
most of the chip select for it. The 811 is very similar but has 2K or so
eeprom at top of memory so can be programmed over serial with something
like an sdcard bootloader and just wired to a chunk of RAM.

Generally they all have inbuilt rs232 download, spi and the ROM including
ones have a nice monitor built in. Inbuilt RAM lets you run small apps
without external memory which is awesome for debugging boards that wont work

[Kip Koon]

Hi Alan,

Take a look at this web page. Talks about a 6809 Flex Computer system, but there is an MC68HC811E2 chip on the I/O board. See the SBC09COP.gif file at the link below.

< http://members.optushome.com.au/jekent/Flex6809/sbc09/index.html>

What do you think as a starting point. Who is Frank Wilson?



Kip Koon

***@sc.rr.com

http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon





From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Cox
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 12:11 PM
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19819] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed

Apologies; forgot the DIP stipulation. Just trying to understand the applicable nomenclature ... obviously not an area in which I'm knowledgeable!

No offence intended. My understanding is that there is no easy way to use the recent packaging formats with breadboards or similar.

HC11 nomenclature is usually

A0 - no eeprom or rom
A1 - no rom
A9 - buffalo in ROM

Later A9 can run code from eeprom via the monitor ROM

E has more ROM and replaced A, D is a bit cut down, K can do 1MB and does most of the chip select for it. The 811 is very similar but has 2K or so eeprom at top of memory so can be programmed over serial with something like an sdcard bootloader and just wired to a chunk of RAM.

Generally they all have inbuilt rs232 download, spi and the ROM including ones have a nice monitor built in. Inbuilt RAM lets you run small apps without external memory which is awesome for debugging boards that wont work
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[Alan Cox]

Post by Kip Koon
Hi Alan,
Take a look at this web page. Talks about a 6809 Flex Computer system, but
there is an MC68HC811E2 chip on the I/O board. See the SBC09COP.gif file at
the link below.
< http://members.optushome.com.au/jekent/Flex6809/sbc09/index.html>
What do you think as a starting point.

Nice.. that is fancier than I was thinking by far. I wasn't going to
bother with 32K fixed but just use the 256 bytes internal RAM and the
2K eeprom area to hold some little inter bank switching code. Not sure
what Flex needs in that area.

My thoughts for I/O were to just stick an SD card through a 5v/3.3v
buffer onto the SPI. Perhaps also ethernet 8)

Alan

[Paul Birkel]

Thanks Alan. No more questions/comments until I've done *all* of my
homework! The modern MCU environment is not one with which I yet have any
familiarity; need to get some ...

The M68HC11 Family seems like an interesting opportunity to span the
generations ("old code" ... "new I/O").

Post by Paul Birkel

Post by Paul Birkel
Apologies; forgot the DIP stipulation. Just trying to understand the

applicable nomenclature ... obviously not an area in which I'm
knowledgeable!
No offence intended. My understanding is that there is no easy way to use
the recent packaging formats with breadboards or similar.
HC11 nomenclature is usually
A0 - no eeprom or rom
A1 - no rom
A9 - buffalo in ROM
Later A9 can run code from eeprom via the monitor ROM
E has more ROM and replaced A, D is a bit cut down, K can do 1MB and does
most of the chip select for it. The 811 is very similar but has 2K or so
eeprom at top of memory so can be programmed over serial with something
like an sdcard bootloader and just wired to a chunk of RAM.
Generally they all have inbuilt rs232 download, spi and the ROM including
ones have a nice monitor built in. Inbuilt RAM lets you run small apps
without external memory which is awesome for debugging boards that wont work
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[Alan Cox]

I'm not a PCB designer, I don't know anything about Flex beyond poking
at it a bit and my interests are some rather different OS's. Now I've
found the PLCC adapters I do fancy a go at breadboarding an HC811 with
a modern SRAM and an SD card to run Fuzix. That may be a while however
- family stuff is going to stop me making much progress in the
immediate future.

Alan

[Kip Koon]

Hi Alan,
I have been looking into running Fuzix on my N8VEM ECB Mark IV SBC as well as on the Radio Shack Color Computer 3. Fuzix really has my interest! A Unix like OS on an 8-bit microprocessor like the 6809 is great! I perused your web site recently and I like your goals for Fuzix. A lot of people have been busy! I also want to try Fuzix on my 6X0X 6U SBC as well. I'm also thinking about playing with CP/M on the Mark IV since a Unified BIOS called UNA has been created. UNA is supposed to boot CP/M and Fuzix. I will also be playing with Flex 9 on my 6X0X as well.
I programmed the UNA BIOS into the 4Mbit flash chip on the Mark IV, programmed an SD Card with Fuzix, inserted the SD Card into the Mark IV and powered it up. I was supposed to see 10 flashes of a yellow LED, but I only saw 4 with nothing on the monitor. I have to figure out what is wrong. I thought you might be interested in what I'm up to especially with your Fuzix project. Well, I'll stop and let you get back to your Fuzix development. Take care my friend.

Kip Koon
***@sc.rr.com
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19830] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed
I'm not a PCB designer, I don't know anything about Flex beyond poking at it a bit and my interests are some rather different OS's.
Now I've found the PLCC adapters I do fancy a go at breadboarding an HC811 with a modern SRAM and an SD card to run Fuzix. That
may be a while however
- family stuff is going to stop me making much progress in the immediate future.
Alan
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[yoda]

Not sure why you would reject a PLCC chip as not DIP as the PLCC socket is
a through hole and takes less board space - or am I missing something?

Post by Alan Cox
Not DIP and in the USA with a stupendous offered shipping cost. I do
actually know how to use ebay and amazon searches
Alan

[Alan Cox]

Not sure why you would reject a PLCC chip as not DIP as the PLCC socket is a
through hole and takes less board space - or am I missing something?

No.. PLCC with socket wouldn't breadboard directly but it's also been
pointed dout to me that PLCC<->breadboard adapters are fairly cheap
and widely available up to 84pin !

Alan

[Kip Koon]

Hi Alan,

That is so cool! I was looking at the handy board as well! What do you think about the Handy Board? I don’t see any online storage for Flex 2.11 to live on. Any ideas as to how to add an SD controller for storage? The HD6303 doesn’t have the Y Index register like the HC11 does which would come in handy. Have you seen any other designs for an HC11 or HC811 SBC with storage?



Kip Koon

***@sc.rr.com

http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon





From: ***@googlegroups.com [mailto:***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Cox
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 9:19 AM
To: ***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19811] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed

Post by Kip Koon
Hi Folks,
I want to run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eForth as well. I saw the 68HC11 Old System files but no schematic was to be found. What would be a good design for a 68HC11 SBC so I can get this software to run. The files are just sitting here begging to be used again. :) Any help is most appreciated. Thanks a bunch.

Funnily enough I was looking at this and also HD6303 designs last night. Most of the HC11 designs seem roughly the same core as the handyboard - 32K DS1235 battery backed RAM, demultiplexor and CPU. Not quite what I was looking for. The useful DIP HC11 and HC811s are also like gold dust and while tekmos do clone HC11s they are not DIP nor it seems easy to get via a supplier.

An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM would be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(

http://handyboard.com/oldhb/hardware/schematc.html

Alan
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[David W. Schultz]

Post by Alan Cox
An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM
would be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(

I thought I had a couple of 68HC11s kicking around but when I looked for
them I found two XC68HC811E2P instead. (DIP package) I don't remember
when or why I acquired those. I am sure I had something in mind for them
at the time. :-)

While searching the net I stumbled on this 68HC11 card:

http://www.mosaic-industries.com/Products/SBC/QCard.html
--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
Returned for Regrooving

[Alan Cox]

Post by David W. Schultz
http://www.mosaic-industries.com/Products/SBC/QCard.html

Interesting. There are some other ones on

http://www.technologicalarts.ca/

who also do the PLCC to breadboard adapters

[Kip Koon]

Hi David,
Those chips sound interesting. Are they Engineering samples? I have a couple 68HC11 48-pin DIPs, but I don't remember what they are. They've been packed up until I could find a schematic that I wanted to build with them.

Kip Koon
***@sc.rr.com
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 19831] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed

Post by Alan Cox
An HC811 with 2K EEPROM on chip to boot off SD card and a 512k SRAM
would be awesome and need almost no glue but try finding the part 8(

I thought I had a couple of 68HC11s kicking around but when I looked for them I found two XC68HC811E2P instead. (DIP package) I
don't remember when or why I acquired those. I am sure I had something in mind for them at the time. :-)
http://www.mosaic-industries.com/Products/SBC/QCard.html
--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
Returned for Regrooving
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[Alan Cox]

I found one of the EVBU (Motorola evaluation/dev boards) going cheaply
so have acquired that. Hopefully that will let me worry about
breadboarding the RAM and address bus demultiplexor rather than also
all the crystals and rs232 buffers etc.

[Borut]

Kip,

Schematics is in the 68hc11.pdf file, but it is not complete. I made that board somewhere in 1996 and it was intended as a robot controller. AFAIK i had 3 PCBs made. In 2012 i had too much time at my hands and i found one of this boards in a box in the cellar.
I piggybacked another RAM on existing 62256 (flex2 loads at a000) and added Propeller protoboard as I/O subsystem, quite similar to PropIO. I used Yoda's first code for PropIO as a base for propeller code. Flex9 on 6x0x board is also based on the same.
Flex2 seemed a nice OS so i did the port.
I uploaded the files so someone else might use them.
If anyone has any questions about the system i can try to answer them, but it has been a while since i last switched it on.
If you or anyone else wants to run Flex on hc11 beware, there are slight differences between hc11 and 6802 in behaviour of a few instructions. Not much, but it can lead to unexpected behaviour. Flex is ok as far as i can tell, but one of basics for flex has a problem.
6303 is/was also a nice CPU, i had it running forth, but that system is lost in the past.


best regards,
Bo/

[Kip Koon]

Hi Borut,
Well bust my buttons! There is the schematic! I figured that was a datasheet for the 68HC11 and since I wasn't building it yet, I never looked at it. Another case of don't judge a file by its filename! Thank you so much for setting me straight my friend. I will look at it in detail and compare it to what I have found. Thanks a bunch. If you come across any more documentation or the rest of the schematics, would you let us know? Thanks again.

Kip Koon
***@sc.rr.com
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 5:40 PM
Subject: [N8VEM: 19826] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed
Kip,
Schematics is in the 68hc11.pdf file, but it is not complete. I made that board somewhere in 1996 and it was intended as a robot
controller. AFAIK i had 3 PCBs made. In 2012 i had too much time at my hands and i found one of this boards in a box in the cellar.
I piggybacked another RAM on existing 62256 (flex2 loads at a000) and added Propeller protoboard as I/O subsystem, quite similar to
PropIO. I used Yoda's first code for PropIO as a base for propeller code. Flex9 on 6x0x board is also based on the same.
Flex2 seemed a nice OS so i did the port.
I uploaded the files so someone else might use them.
If anyone has any questions about the system i can try to answer them, but it has been a while since i last switched it on.
If you or anyone else wants to run Flex on hc11 beware, there are slight differences between hc11 and 6802 in behaviour of a few
instructions. Not much, but it can lead to unexpected behaviour. Flex is ok as far as i can tell, but one of basics for flex has a problem.
6303 is/was also a nice CPU, i had it running forth, but that system is lost in the past.
best regards,
Bo/
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[Borut]

Kip,

There is no more documentation. I was lucky that i had that schematic and GALs CUPL source after 16 years. The PC used to do the PCB layout is looong gone and all the modifications in 2012 were made on protoboard. But as said, you can use PropIO or even better, Propeller part of 6x0x, as a guide for the Propeller subsystem.

Bo/

[Kip Koon]

Hi Borut,
Thank you for sharing everything you have on your 68HC11 project. I really appreciate it. I'll look at everything you said and documented very carefully and hopefully those interested in a 68HC11 SBC will get together and a PCB design can be put together using this data. I have found a couple of other 68HC11 designs with various different features. It will hopefully be possible to glean the best of all of them and come up with the best possible design. Any one care to take on designing and making a 68hc11 or 68hc811 SBC that among other things can run Flex 2.11, Basic11 and eforth? Alan Cox, you up for this? A first step might be to design a minimal 68HC11 48-pin dip based computer in the spirit and style of Grant Searle's minimal computer designs on breadboard. Of course we could go for the gusto and create a full feature ECB based system board. :) Thanks again my friends.

Kip Koon
***@sc.rr.com
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:17 AM
Subject: RE: [N8VEM: 19828] 68HC11 SBC Design Needed
Kip,
There is no more documentation. I was lucky that i had that schematic and GALs CUPL source after 16 years. The PC used to do the
PCB layout is looong gone and all the modifications in 2012 were made on protoboard. But as said, you can use PropIO or even
better, Propeller part of 6x0x, as a guide for the Propeller subsystem.
Bo/
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[Gary Kaufman]

Ran into a tube of new MC68HC11A0P today at a hamfest, 7 total in the tube.

PM me if you're still looking.

- Gary

[G. Beat]

The Motorola 68HC11 was very popular with robotics builders in the 1990s.
There was a good library of standard code functions for the HC08 and HC11
You will also find that MPU used in the Kantronics TNCs from that same era.
--
I may have access to surface MPUs of that series from Dukane (if not gone).
Some were PLCC, or a few SMT.

[G. Beat]

Sources:
http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/ee361/hc11lnks.htm#student_evb

Boards:
https://www.axman.com/content/cme-11e9-evbu-single-chip-expanded-mode-development-system-mc68hc11e9-32k-sram-8k-eeprom

https://www.axman.com/content/cmm-11e1-small-single-board-computer-mc68hc11e1-32k-sram-and-32k-eeprom-board-only