[N8VEM: 16031] Formatting floppydisks ? help needed

[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi all

I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.

During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.

I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.

I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.


Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.




Best regards
Frank

[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

Multifmt is just for the hard drives, SD and CF.

Sysgen will put a system image on a floppy for you.

I use the fdtst program to do the low level format on the floppy,
then sysgen to put the OS where it needs to go. Once you do that
the floppy will be bootable.

Best of luck,

Douglas Goodall

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Douglas

Thanks for the info, I just made a new eprom image with the fdtst program
on, but still no luck.

What happens is this , I start the fdtst program , use the setup to select
the right device and the right conf for that device, it is a 3œ" PC
floppydrive, 1,44 MB and the diskette is also 1,44 MB - brandnew.

Then I select to format - select disk and Yes , and of it goes - the drive
spins and the head is moving and on the screen i can see the numbers
increase as expected, it finishes - nothing indicates that anything is
wrong. Then I do a verify - first track , first side (0) and first sector
it writes that the data is wrong - not as expected.

The same happens if I choose just a single track or a single sector and it
happens on all my drives - also 51/4" 1,2 MB , the drives Works fine in a
pc and also the diskettes, and with the same cable - I have tried both a
twisted and a not twisted cable - same problem.

IDE part Works fine on both SF Cards and real HD's

I have choosen a 1 K as the resistor-Network , could it be that it should
be 150 Ohm's instead ?


best regards
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
Multifmt is just for the hard drives, SD and CF.
Sysgen will put a system image on a floppy for you.
I use the fdtst program to do the low level format on the floppy,
then sysgen to put the OS where it needs to go. Once you do that
the floppy will be bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas Goodall

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,

ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the

CP/M version.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got

video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more
or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT -
I can't format the floppydisks.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 ,

0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR
program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA
ERROR.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts

and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then
nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is

multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and
that worked fine.

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Best regards
Frank

[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

I don't have experience with the ECB based floppy interfaces so I cannot answer authoritatively
about your resistor network. Wayne might be a better person to ask.

I will forward this to him as well…

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
Thanks for the info, I just made a new eprom image with the fdtst program on, but still no luck.
What happens is this , I start the fdtst program , use the setup to select the right device and the right conf for that device, it is a 3œ" PC floppydrive, 1,44 MB and the diskette is also 1,44 MB - brandnew.
Then I select to format - select disk and Yes , and of it goes - the drive spins and the head is moving and on the screen i can see the numbers increase as expected, it finishes - nothing indicates that anything is wrong. Then I do a verify - first track , first side (0) and first sector it writes that the data is wrong - not as expected.
The same happens if I choose just a single track or a single sector and it happens on all my drives - also 51/4" 1,2 MB , the drives Works fine in a pc and also the diskettes, and with the same cable - I have tried both a twisted and a not twisted cable - same problem.
IDE part Works fine on both SF Cards and real HD's
I have choosen a 1 K as the resistor-Network , could it be that it should be 150 Ohm's instead ?
best regards
Frank
Frank,
Multifmt is just for the hard drives, SD and CF.
Sysgen will put a system image on a floppy for you.
I use the fdtst program to do the low level format on the floppy,
then sysgen to put the OS where it needs to go. Once you do that
the floppy will be bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas Goodall

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

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[John Coffman]

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Instead of 150ohm resistors, I have used 220ohm resistors on the
following:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DiskIO v1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; chipset:&nbsp; i8272 + FDC9229BT<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SBC-188&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; chipset:&nbsp; WDC37C65BJM<br>
<br>
The main reason for changing the value was that I could not readily
find 150ohm SIPs.&nbsp; 220ohm SIPs are easy to find.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 04:36 PM, Douglas Goodall wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:7BE0DF01-8A63-4C78-B02E-9D5761C8D988-***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Frank,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't have experience with the ECB based floppy interfaces
so I cannot answer authoritatively</div>
<div>about your resistor network. Wayne might be a better person
to ask.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will forward this to him as well&#8230;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Douglas</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 22, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Frank Rasmussen &lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:frankrasmussen2-***@public.gmane.org">frankrasmussen2-***@public.gmane.org</a>&gt;
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi Douglas </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks for the info, I just made a new eprom image with
the fdtst program on, but still no luck.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>What happens is this , I start the fdtst program , use
the setup to select the right device and the right conf
for that device, it is a 3&frac12;" PC floppydrive, 1,44 MB and
the diskette is also 1,44 MB - brandnew.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Then I select to format - select disk and Yes , and of
it goes - the drive spins and the head is moving and on
the screen i can see the numbers increase as expected, it
finishes - nothing indicates that anything is wrong. Then
I do a verify - first track , first side (0) and first
sector it writes that the data is wrong - not as expected.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The same happens if I choose just a single track or a
single sector and it happens on all my drives - also 51/4"
1,2 MB , the drives Works fine in a pc and also the
diskettes, and with the same cable - I have tried both a
twisted and a not twisted cable - same problem.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>IDE part Works fine on both SF Cards and real HD's </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I have choosen a 1 K as the resistor-Network , could it
be that it should be 150 Ohm's instead ?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>best regards</div>
<div>Frank</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
Den torsdag den 11. juli 2013 05.13.31 UTC+2 skrev
douglas_goodall:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204);">Frank,
<br>
<br>
Multifmt is just for the hard drives, SD and CF.
<br>
<br>
Sysgen will put a system image on a floppy for you.
<br>
<br>
I use the fdtst program to do the low level format on the
floppy,
<br>
then sysgen to put the OS where it needs to go. Once you
do that
<br>
the floppy will be bootable.
<br>
<br>
Best of luck,
<br>
<br>
Douglas Goodall
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/10/2013 11:48 AM, Frank Rasmussen wrote:
<br>
&gt; Hi all
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer,
cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU
SBC-V2 Z80 board.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the
boards and selected the CP/M version.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; During boot it writes all the right things, so it
looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine,
and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can
access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or
d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins
the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option
to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it
just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the
drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom
image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk
in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I
can then only press the reset button.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I
doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I
used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt;
<br>
&gt; Best regards
<br>
&gt; Frank
<br>
&gt;
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Frank,

Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST
is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current
memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will
fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by
the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.

To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then
use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use
verify to verify the contents.

It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by
CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?

--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU,
DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video
on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more
or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT -
I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1,
Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR
program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA
ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and
then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then
nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is
multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and
that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

[vk2fvax]

Hi Frank,

Sorry to come in late. I had a similar set of symptoms with mine, ended up
though being embarrasingly simple in that I had the crystals for afair the
8 and 1.8mhz around the wrong way (Could be wrong on which two, the system
is not here at the moment). Anyway it ended up being insufficient for the
data rate. Someone spotted it from a hi-res photo of my board, I swaped
them, felt suitably silly and it all "Just Worked" (tm) as advertised on
the tin.

Al

[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Wayne

and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.


Thanks for Your input - not working though.


I took a new cable - did the format with the fdtst program and then a dir ,
"no address mark" , ok then tried to do a new format of a new disk and then
just do the sysgen, here is what that is saying:

"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....


Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm



I will post an update , when im done



Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST
is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current
memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will
fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by
the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then
use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use
verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by
CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU,
DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video
on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more
or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT -
I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1,
Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR
program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA
ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and
then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then
nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is
multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and
that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

What speed are you running the CPU at.

What is the floppy density you are using?

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank
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[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Douglas

I'm running at 4 MHZ

drive is 1,2 MB and floppy density is 96TI , i have tried a 360K drive with
a 360Kdisk 48TPI , and I have tried 3œ inch drive with both a 720K and a
1.44MB , same result


/Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
What speed are you running the CPU at.
What is the floppy density you are using?
Douglas
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
I took a new cable - did the format with the fdtst program and then a dir
, "no address mark" , ok then tried to do a new format of a new disk and
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST
is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current
memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will
fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by
the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been),
then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors,
then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by
CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got
video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more
or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT -
I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 ,
0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR
program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA
ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts
and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then
nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is
multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and
that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

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[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

There may be some correlation between your CPU speed and the problems you are having as I believe
the software interfaces to the floppy do not use DMA.

Is there a particular reason you are running so slow?

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
I'm running at 4 MHZ
drive is 1,2 MB and floppy density is 96TI , i have tried a 360K drive with a 360Kdisk 48TPI , and I have tried 3œ inch drive with both a 720K and a 1.44MB , same result
/Frank
Frank,
What speed are you running the CPU at.
What is the floppy density you are using?
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank
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[Frank Rasmussen]

No speciel reason for the speed , just picked tha values from the parts
list for the CPU board - that said 4 MHz xtal for the cpu.

I guess that if I replace it with a 8 MHz xtal , then I need to make a new
eprom with speed set to 8 MHz



as it's getting late here in denmark (1:40 am), I will go to bed now and
not read any comments until tomorrow morning

/Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
There may be some correlation between your CPU speed and the problems you
are having as I believe
the software interfaces to the floppy do not use DMA.
Is there a particular reason you are running so slow?
Douglas
Hi Douglas
I'm running at 4 MHZ
drive is 1,2 MB and floppy density is 96TI , i have tried a 360K drive
with a 360Kdisk 48TPI , and I have tried 3œ inch drive with both a 720K and
a 1.44MB , same result
/Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
What speed are you running the CPU at.
What is the floppy density you are using?
Douglas
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
I took a new cable - did the format with the fdtst program and then a dir
, "no address mark" , ok then tried to do a new format of a new disk and
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in
FDTST is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the
current memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it
will fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly
by the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been),
then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors,
then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use
by CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got
video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more
or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT -
I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 ,
0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR
program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA
ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts
and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then
nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is
multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and
that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

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[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

As I recall, 8MHz is a better clock rate for doing floppy low level stuff.

Douglas


Sent from my iPhone

No speciel reason for the speed , just picked tha values from the parts list for the CPU board - that said 4 MHz xtal for the cpu.
I guess that if I replace it with a 8 MHz xtal , then I need to make a new eprom with speed set to 8 MHz
as it's getting late here in denmark (1:40 am), I will go to bed now and not read any comments until tomorrow morning
/Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
There may be some correlation between your CPU speed and the problems you are having as I believe
the software interfaces to the floppy do not use DMA.
Is there a particular reason you are running so slow?
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
I'm running at 4 MHZ
drive is 1,2 MB and floppy density is 96TI , i have tried a 360K drive with a 360Kdisk 48TPI , and I have tried 3œ inch drive with both a 720K and a 1.44MB , same result
/Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
What speed are you running the CPU at.
What is the floppy density you are using?
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank

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[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Frank,

Sorry you are having so much trouble.

Regarding the CPU clock speed, the basic issue is that a 4MHz clock speed
will not support high density (500 kbps) formats. That would mean that
1.2M and 1.44M formats would not work. However, formatting a 3.5" floppy
at 720K should work even with a 4MHz CPU clock.

I am getting a little confused as I read through the things you have tried.
I think we should start with the most basic operations and then proceed
from there. It is actually very good that you are successfully performing
a format operation with FDTST.

First of all, let's focus purely on using FDTST to start with. The goal is
to format a disk and then read the disk -- both operations should be
performed by FDTST.

I suggest using a 3.5" drive and floppy. We want to format it at 720K. If
the floppy has a HD hole, you MUST tape over it with a black tape (like
electrical tape). The HD hole is similar to the write protect hole, but
there is no slider and it is located on the other side of the floppy.

Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 720K and unit 0.

Then perform a format disk. It sounds like you have done this before and
it worked. The drive should click through all 80 tracks (FDTST counts in
hex, so it will count up to hex 50).

Now simply use the read disk function in FDTST. This is the critical test.
Do not use the verify function, just use read disk.

Please let me know if you can get this far. If not, please send capture
the contents of the failure on the screen and send them along.

I doubt your issue is related to the termination resistors. If that were
the problem, you would get a different error.

I have pasted a sample session with FDTST below that exemplifies what I am
hoping you can try.

Thanks,

Wayne

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B>fdtst

FDTST v3.2 (WW-130618T0918) for N8VEM DISKIO V3

======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> FORMAT (T)RACK, (D)ISK ===> DISK
ENTER INTERLEAVE [01-09] (02):



RESET DRIVE...
PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=01

======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> READ (S)ECTOR, (T)RACK, (D)ISK, (R)ANDOM ===> DISK


PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=09

======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> EXIT
B>

[Tregare]

Ok, I have to ask... Why won't the N8VEM floppy disk controllers handle 1.2
or 1.44 mb disks at 4 Mhz? My Tandy 6000 handled 1.2 mb 5.25 inch floppies
in addition to the 8" floppies at 4 mhz under the Z-80 and there was a
hardware mod one could do to do 1.44 mb 3.5's My old model 3 could do High
density 5 1/4 (1.2) floppies at 2 or 4 mhz.... not to mention the ATR8000
from SWP that could run 1.2 mb disk drives under CP/M on it or even running
as a floppy controller for an Atari 8-bit computer...
this may have been mentioned before but my memory isn't like it used to be.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Sorry you are having so much trouble.
Regarding the CPU clock speed, the basic issue is that a 4MHz clock speed
will not support high density (500 kbps) formats. That would mean that
1.2M and 1.44M formats would not work. However, formatting a 3.5" floppy
at 720K should work even with a 4MHz CPU clock.
I am getting a little confused as I read through the things you have
tried. I think we should start with the most basic operations and then
proceed from there. It is actually very good that you are successfully
performing a format operation with FDTST.
First of all, let's focus purely on using FDTST to start with. The goal
is to format a disk and then read the disk -- both operations should be
performed by FDTST.
I suggest using a 3.5" drive and floppy. We want to format it at 720K.
If the floppy has a HD hole, you MUST tape over it with a black tape (like
electrical tape). The HD hole is similar to the write protect hole, but
there is no slider and it is located on the other side of the floppy.
Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 720K and unit 0.
Then perform a format disk. It sounds like you have done this before and
it worked. The drive should click through all 80 tracks (FDTST counts in
hex, so it will count up to hex 50).
Now simply use the read disk function in FDTST. This is the critical
test. Do not use the verify function, just use read disk.
Please let me know if you can get this far. If not, please send capture
the contents of the failure on the screen and send them along.
I doubt your issue is related to the termination resistors. If that were
the problem, you would get a different error.
I have pasted a sample session with FDTST below that exemplifies what I am
hoping you can try.
Thanks,
Wayne
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B>fdtst
FDTST v3.2 (WW-130618T0918) for N8VEM DISKIO V3
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> FORMAT (T)RACK, (D)ISK ===> DISK
RESET DRIVE...
PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=01
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> READ (S)ECTOR, (T)RACK, (D)ISK, (R)ANDOM ===> DISK
PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=09
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> EXIT
B>
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[Frank Rasmussen]

I guess that it is a design issue , I also got an old 1987 homebuild CP/M
3+ computer (Quaterpounder) running at 4 MHz that can do all formats too.

At the moment I would be happy just to be able to write to the floppies -
no matter what size they are.

What puzzels me too , is that it seems to be unstable. After the formatting
with fdtst I sometimes need to reboot the computer in order to do just a
dir of the floppydrive, and I can only copy one file to it - but not always
, I succeded 2 times in copying files to the disk, then I could not do a
dir anymore - if I did then the computer would "hang"

So I Wonder if this issue that I have is more related to the CPU board than
it is to the DISKIO3 board ????


Comments and suggestions are very welcome



Best regards
Frank

Post by Tregare
Ok, I have to ask... Why won't the N8VEM floppy disk controllers handle
1.2 or 1.44 mb disks at 4 Mhz? My Tandy 6000 handled 1.2 mb 5.25 inch
floppies in addition to the 8" floppies at 4 mhz under the Z-80 and there
was a hardware mod one could do to do 1.44 mb 3.5's My old model 3 could
do High density 5 1/4 (1.2) floppies at 2 or 4 mhz.... not to mention the
ATR8000 from SWP that could run 1.2 mb disk drives under CP/M on it or even
running as a floppy controller for an Atari 8-bit computer...
this may have been mentioned before but my memory isn't like it used to be.

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
Sorry you are having so much trouble.
Regarding the CPU clock speed, the basic issue is that a 4MHz clock speed
will not support high density (500 kbps) formats. That would mean that
1.2M and 1.44M formats would not work. However, formatting a 3.5" floppy
at 720K should work even with a 4MHz CPU clock.
I am getting a little confused as I read through the things you have
tried. I think we should start with the most basic operations and then
proceed from there. It is actually very good that you are successfully
performing a format operation with FDTST.
First of all, let's focus purely on using FDTST to start with. The goal
is to format a disk and then read the disk -- both operations should be
performed by FDTST.
I suggest using a 3.5" drive and floppy. We want to format it at 720K.
If the floppy has a HD hole, you MUST tape over it with a black tape (like
electrical tape). The HD hole is similar to the write protect hole, but
there is no slider and it is located on the other side of the floppy.
Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 720K and unit 0.
Then perform a format disk. It sounds like you have done this before and
it worked. The drive should click through all 80 tracks (FDTST counts in
hex, so it will count up to hex 50).
Now simply use the read disk function in FDTST. This is the critical
test. Do not use the verify function, just use read disk.
Please let me know if you can get this far. If not, please send capture
the contents of the failure on the screen and send them along.
I doubt your issue is related to the termination resistors. If that were
the problem, you would get a different error.
I have pasted a sample session with FDTST below that exemplifies what I
am hoping you can try.
Thanks,
Wayne
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B>fdtst
FDTST v3.2 (WW-130618T0918) for N8VEM DISKIO V3
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> FORMAT (T)RACK, (D)ISK ===> DISK
RESET DRIVE...
PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=01
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> READ (S)ECTOR, (T)RACK, (D)ISK, (R)ANDOM ===> DISK
PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=09
======================<< FDTST MAIN MENU >>=====================
(S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLLING TRACE=00
----------------------------------------------------------------
(R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY
(I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT
=== OPTION ===> EXIT
B>
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.
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[John Coffman]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
On 07/30/2013 01:09 AM, Tregare wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAL6Yev_QPaaDFy+6=4+Goqw2v13QcFKP_Yyi1sE95VgFnDadAg-JsoAwUIsXosN+***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Ok, I have to ask... Why won't the N8VEM floppy disk
controllers handle 1.2 or 1.44 mb disks at 4 Mhz?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The FDC controllers will handle HD disks; but the programmed I/O
transfers cannot handle the HD data rates.&nbsp; At 4Mhz, instructions in
the wait &amp; transfer loops just don't execute fast enough.<br>
<br>
The JCxxxx BIOS's use interrupts to handle the transfers, and can
keep up with the HD data rates at 4Mhz.&nbsp; However, on the DiskI/O v1,
circuit mods are needed to get interrupts to operate properly.<br>
<br>
The better solution would be transfers using an 8237 DMA
controller.&nbsp; The simplest solution is to up the CPU speed to 8Mhz.&nbsp;
(I forget whether 6Mhz will work or not.)<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAL6Yev_QPaaDFy+6=4+Goqw2v13QcFKP_Yyi1sE95VgFnDadAg-JsoAwUIsXosN+***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>&nbsp; My Tandy 6000 handled 1.2 mb 5.25 inch floppies in
addition to the 8" floppies at 4 mhz under the Z-80 and there
was a hardware mod one could do to do 1.44 mb 3.5's&nbsp; My old
model 3 could do High density 5 1/4 (1.2) floppies at 2 or 4
mhz....&nbsp; not to mention the ATR8000 from SWP that could run
1.2 mb disk drives under CP/M on it or even running as a
floppy controller for an Atari 8-bit computer...<br>
</div>
&nbsp;this may have been mentioned before but my memory isn't like it
used to be.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

[Douglas Goodall]

Some of these machines had DMA to take care of low level transfers.

Most of the N8VEM I/O is done by bit-banging.

Douglas

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
As I recall, 8MHz is a better clock rate for doing floppy low level stuff.
Douglas
Sent from my iPhone

No speciel reason for the speed , just picked tha values from the parts list for the CPU board - that said 4 MHz xtal for the cpu.
I guess that if I replace it with a 8 MHz xtal , then I need to make a new eprom with speed set to 8 MHz
as it's getting late here in denmark (1:40 am), I will go to bed now and not read any comments until tomorrow morning
/Frank
Frank,
There may be some correlation between your CPU speed and the problems you are having as I believe
the software interfaces to the floppy do not use DMA.
Is there a particular reason you are running so slow?
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
I'm running at 4 MHZ
drive is 1,2 MB and floppy density is 96TI , i have tried a 360K drive with a 360Kdisk 48TPI , and I have tried 3œ inch drive with both a 720K and a 1.44MB , same result
/Frank
Frank,
What speed are you running the CPU at.
What is the floppy density you are using?
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
and ofcourse all the others that have commented on this with good ideas.
Thanks for Your input - not working though.
"PERMANENT ERROR" - and yes it is Capital letters it is using - hm.....
Now I will try to replace the 1K resistor Network with a 150 ohm
I will post an update , when im done
Best regards
Frank
Hi Frank,
Actually, everything may be working fine... The verify function in FDTST is intended to verify sector contents against the contents of the current memory buffer. If you simply format the disk, then do a verify, it will fail because the contents of every sector are set to hex E5 implicitly by the format, but the buffer used for verify does not contain hex E5's.
To use the verify function, first format the disk (as you have been), then use the write function to write the memory buffer to some sectors, then use verify to verify the contents.
It sounds like you are formatting fine and the floppy is ready for use by CP/M. Have you tried accessing it from the A> prompt? Just a DIR A:?
--Wayne
Hi all
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
I have build an EPROM ROMWBW, that supports the boards and selected the CP/M version.
During boot it writes all the right things, so it looks good, I got video on , the seriel port Works fine, and i can format a harddrive , more partitions and I can access the floppydrives - that is : when i do a dir c: or d: the light in the floppy drive lights up and it spins the drive, BUT - I can't format the floppydisks.
I tried the multifmt program, it gives me the option to select 0-1 , 0-1, Y/n , D/n , no matter what i do it just returns my B: prompt, CLRDIR program accesses the drives and moves the head in steps but reports DATA ERROR.
I then copied a CP/M 2.2 format program to the eprom image, it starts and then ask me if I want to format disk in c: Y/n , I choose Y and then nothing more happens - I can then only press the reset button.
Any good suggestions of what to do, or what am I doing wrong - how is multifmt supposed to be used ? , I used that to format the harddrive and that worked fine.
Best regards
Frank
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[Vince Mulhollon]

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU,
DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies that
almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've got a
5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly similar
configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with that
config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird (if
at all) it gets while running your test.

Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have to
serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove the
IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of the
FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem, including
excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.

STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper
motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule
out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the
buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.

I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore
them too.

There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.

Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did,
and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would fit
your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT
your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.

I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than
a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will
be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably OK.

I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne


I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed
was set to 8 MHz.


3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.

Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)

I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir c:
- all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message


/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU,
DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have
to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove
the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of
the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper
motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule
out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the
buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore
them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did,
and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would fit
your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT
your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than
a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will
be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Again


Forgot to say - I tried the same Things with 1,44 MB drive and a HD floppy
disk , does not Work - data error , but the format runs through , read
afterwards fails.




/Frank

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed
was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir
c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have
to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove
the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of
the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper
motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule
out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the
buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore
them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.

The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.

For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.

after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.

IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then

b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]

I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.

Best of luck,

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write (after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error message
/Frank
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird (if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem, including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your symptoms.
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[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Douglas


this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then
trying to do a sysgen

A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy


A0>b:
B0>dir c:
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO
DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE

getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it
just hangs


B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.



Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it
should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed
was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir
c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have
to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove
the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of
the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper
motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule
out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the
buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

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[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Frank,

You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working
(format, write, and read) is excellent.

The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using the
wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten the
wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN for
a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be
adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the
RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent
SYSGEN program below.

The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a bit
erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory is
good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are
occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong
SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.

I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your
hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the
buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then
repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have
no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you
have any real hardware problems.

From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK. Since

you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation
using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped
over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing
the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing. I
would like to know if this is reliable as well.

Thanks,

Wayne


-----------------------------------------------------------

B>sysgen cpm.sys c:

SYSGEN.COM 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
file which is 13568 bytes long, OK? (Y/n):
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>

Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then
trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO
DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it
just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it
should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where
speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir
c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have
to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove
the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of
the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper
motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule
out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the
buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

--
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[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Wayne

Making a new eprom with the right sysgen helped - well one problem was
solved by that. Now it Works as You described and the disk is actually
bootable :-) , but doing a pip c:=b:*.* or just copying a single
program - like pip.com - it returns a BDOS ERR ON C:

several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again -
especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not
even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.

I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very
hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result


Formattting a HD is yet to be tried


Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working
(format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using the
wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten the
wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN for
a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be
adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the
RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent
SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a bit
erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory is
good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are
occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong
SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your
hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the
buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then
repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have
no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you
have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK. Since
you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation
using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped
over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing
the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing. I
would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
SYSGEN.COM 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then
trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO
DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it
just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it
should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where
speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir
c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would
have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly
prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping
one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the
stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on
so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so
the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try
experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

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[Douglas Goodall]

Wayne,

Good catch. I missed Frank's last email with the generic sysgen output.

I agree it is a mystery how the system.com from the OEM release ended up in
the romdrive.

Wayne and Frank,

Have you gotten past the power question? We have seen a lot of trouble where
the power supply wasn't quite up to spec.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that double density and high density floppies
are a different formulation of oxides and covering a hole in a 1.44MB floppy does
not make it the same as a real 720KB floppy. The same is true in the 5-1/4" media.

You can sometimes get away with using alternative media, but it is not recommended.

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again - especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.
I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result
Formattting a HD is yet to be tried
Best regards
Frank
Hi Frank,
You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working (format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using the wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten the wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN for a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a bit erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory is good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK. Since you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing. I would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
SYSGEN.COM 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>
Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write (after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error message
/Frank
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird (if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem, including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your symptoms.
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[Frank Rasmussen]

Hi Douglas and Wayne


That is true with the density - but it Works 95% of the time when talking
about 3œ"


Power supply is tested - a good old one, no problem. What I just did -
since the last mail here a few minutes ago - even though that I did not
feel that there was much heat on the chips - the I tried to put a big fan
on top of the Cards - covering all (2) of them - keeping them very Cold.

Powered up - did a PIP C:=B:*.*

now there is no problem - finished with DISK WRITE ERROR - due to not
enough diskspace on C:


I can also start wordstar from floppy


It is very strange that it is so temp critical


/best regards
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Wayne,
Good catch. I missed Frank's last email with the generic sysgen output.
I agree it is a mystery how the system.com from the OEM release ended up in
the romdrive.
Wayne and Frank,
Have you gotten past the power question? We have seen a lot of trouble where
the power supply wasn't quite up to spec.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that double density and high density floppies
are a different formulation of oxides and covering a hole in a 1.44MB floppy does
not make it the same as a real 720KB floppy. The same is true in the 5-1/4" media.
You can sometimes get away with using alternative media, but it is not recommended.
Douglas
Hi Wayne
Making a new eprom with the right sysgen helped - well one problem was
solved by that. Now it Works as You described and the disk is actually
bootable :-) , but doing a pip c:=b:*.* or just copying a single
several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again -
especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not
even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.
I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very
hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result
Formattting a HD is yet to be tried
Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working
(format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using
the wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten
the wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN
for a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be
adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the
RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent
SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a
bit erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory
is good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are
occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong
SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your
hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the
buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then
repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have
no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you
have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK. Since
you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation
using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped
over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing
the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing. I
would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
SYSGEN.COM <http://sysgen.com/> 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System
Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then
trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors
on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it
should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where
speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write
(after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so
everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a
dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies
that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've
got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly
similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with
that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird
(if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would
have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly
prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping
one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the
stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on
so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so
the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics
device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd
try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

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[Bob Grieb]

Sounds like a timing problem.  Chip delays vary with temperature.
If something is right on the edge, a small change can push it over.

  Bob Grieb




________________________________
From: Frank Rasmussen <frankrasmussen2-***@public.gmane.org>
To: n8vem-/***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 16079] Formatting floppydisks ? help needed



Hi Douglas and Wayne
 
 
That is true with the density - but it Works 95% of the time when talking about 3œ"
 
 
Power supply is tested - a good old one, no problem.   What I just did - since the last mail here a few minutes ago - even though that I did not feel that there was much heat on the chips - the I tried to put a big fan on top of the Cards - covering all (2) of them - keeping them very Cold.
 
Powered up - did a PIP C:=B:*.*
 
now there is no problem - finished with DISK WRITE ERROR - due to not enough diskspace on C:
 
 
I can also start wordstar from floppy
 
 
It is very strange that it is so temp critical
 
 
/best regards
Frank
 
 
 

Den onsdag den 31. juli 2013 01.12.14 UTC+2 skrev douglas_goodall:
Wayne,

Post by Douglas Goodall
Good catch. I missed Frank's last email with the generic sysgen output.
I agree it is a mystery how the system.com from the OEM release ended up in
the romdrive.
Wayne and Frank,
Have you gotten past the power question? We have seen  a lot of trouble where
the power supply wasn't quite up to spec.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that double density and high density floppies
are a different formulation of oxides and covering a hole in a 1.44MB floppy does
not make it the same as a real 720KB floppy. The same is true in the 5-1/4" media.
You can sometimes get away with using alternative media, but it is not recommended.
Douglas
Hi Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
 
 
several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again - especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.
 
I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result
 
 
Formattting a HD is yet to be tried
 
 
Best regards
Frank
 
 
Hi Frank,

You are definitely making progress.  The fact that FDTST is working (format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward.  You seem to be using the wrong SYSGEN program!  I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten the wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN for a different CP/M system.  The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the RomWBW distribution.  I have included a session log from using the corrent SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a bit erratically.  The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory is good.  I cannot explain why it fails thereafter.  If the failures are occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem.  Using the wrong SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your hardware is stable.  Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then repeatedly run the disk verify function.  The verify function should have no errors this way.  If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK.  Since you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation using FDTST?  In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped over).  Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing.  I would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
------------------------------ -----------------------------
SYSGEN.COM 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>
 

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
 
 
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then trying to do a sysgen
 
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
 
 
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
 
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it just hangs
 
B0>dir c:  , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
 
 
 
Frank
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Frank,

Post by Douglas Goodall
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
 
 
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed was set to 8 MHz.
 
 
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
 
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write (after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
 
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error message
 
 
/Frank
 
 
 
 

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
Power supply?  I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads.  I've got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly similar configuration.  Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with that config, I donno.  Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird (if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have to serial console obviously).  Not being plugged in would certainly prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem, including excessive power supply draw...  Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule out U3 and U14.  You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics device package level.  Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing.  I don't think JP3 would fit your symptoms.  I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT your set of symptoms.  I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than a dual channel O-scope).  I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting.  So U12 is probably OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your symptoms.

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Post by Douglas Goodall

Post by Frank Rasmussen

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[Wayne Warthen]

Very interesting stuff. At least things are working when "chilled". Bob's
thought about a timing issue makes sense. The other thing that I once had
a similar problem with (but on a different floppy controller) was when I
used CMOS logic family for the bus transceivers. That logic type is more
sensitive to noise on the bus than standard LS logic (thanks to John
Coffman for teaching me about that). I replaced my bus transceivers with
LS logic and the sporadic issues went away.

I have no idea what logic family you are using, but something to look at...

--Wayne

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas and Wayne
That is true with the density - but it Works 95% of the time when talking
about 3œ"
Power supply is tested - a good old one, no problem. What I just did -
since the last mail here a few minutes ago - even though that I did not
feel that there was much heat on the chips - the I tried to put a big fan
on top of the Cards - covering all (2) of them - keeping them very Cold.
Powered up - did a PIP C:=B:*.*
now there is no problem - finished with DISK WRITE ERROR - due to not
I can also start wordstar from floppy
It is very strange that it is so temp critical
/best regards
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Wayne,
Good catch. I missed Frank's last email with the generic sysgen output.
I agree it is a mystery how the system.com from the OEM release ended up in
the romdrive.
Wayne and Frank,
Have you gotten past the power question? We have seen a lot of trouble where
the power supply wasn't quite up to spec.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that double density and high density floppies
are a different formulation of oxides and covering a hole in a 1.44MB floppy does
not make it the same as a real 720KB floppy. The same is true in the 5-1/4" media.
You can sometimes get away with using alternative media, but it is not recommended.
Douglas
Hi Wayne
Making a new eprom with the right sysgen helped - well one problem was
solved by that. Now it Works as You described and the disk is actually
bootable :-) , but doing a pip c:=b:*.* or just copying a single
several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again -
especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not
even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.
I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very
hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result
Formattting a HD is yet to be tried
Best regards
Frank

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Frank,
You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working
(format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using
the wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten
the wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN
for a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be
adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the
RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent
SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a
bit erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory
is good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are
occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong
SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your
hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the
buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then
repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have
no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you
have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK.
Since you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M
operation using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole
(not taped over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media,
then try doing the same format, write, read operations as you did for the
720K testing. I would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
SYSGEN.COM <http://sysgen.com/> 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System
Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir -
then trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank

Post by Douglas Goodall
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper
sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next
thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program,
it should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where
speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format ,
write (after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. ,
so everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a
dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more
programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once
and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error
message
/Frank

Post by Vince Mulhollon

Post by Frank Rasmussen
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface,
ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.

Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline
supplies that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak
loads. I've got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a
roughly similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK
with that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how
weird (if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would
have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly
prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping
one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem,
including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the
stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on
so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so
the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so
ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an
electronics device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of
course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you
did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would
fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7
WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other
than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266
will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably
OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd
try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your
symptoms.

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[Douglas Goodall]

Frank,

Use

PIP C:=B:*.*[v]

It will read back the sectors and give you a more valid understanding of success.

Once upon a time, I took a razor blade and scraped away some of the iron oxide
on the middle of the floppy.

Then I pipped a bunch of stuff onto the floppy, and it seemed to work, except that
there was no media under the heads to record on as far as the data sectors.

Pip with verify will detect this kind of nonsense right away.

This is a true story. :-)

Douglas

[Douglas Goodall]

Friends,

Could this be an iffy solder joint or trace that expands and contracts with temperature
and in doing so conducts and semi-conducts?

Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Douglas and Wayne
That is true with the density - but it Works 95% of the time when talking about 3œ"
Power supply is tested - a good old one, no problem. What I just did - since the last mail here a few minutes ago - even though that I did not feel that there was much heat on the chips - the I tried to put a big fan on top of the Cards - covering all (2) of them - keeping them very Cold.
Powered up - did a PIP C:=B:*.*
I can also start wordstar from floppy
It is very strange that it is so temp critical
/best regards
Frank
Wayne,
Good catch. I missed Frank's last email with the generic sysgen output.
I agree it is a mystery how the system.com from the OEM release ended up in
the romdrive.
Wayne and Frank,
Have you gotten past the power question? We have seen a lot of trouble where
the power supply wasn't quite up to spec.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that double density and high density floppies
are a different formulation of oxides and covering a hole in a 1.44MB floppy does
not make it the same as a real 720KB floppy. The same is true in the 5-1/4" media.
You can sometimes get away with using alternative media, but it is not recommended.
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Wayne
several times the machine Locks up and I have to power off and on Again - especially after the bdos err on c: , then i cant talk to c: anymore, not even after a reset , it has to be power off and on.
I have checked the temp on the CPU board and the DISKIO board - not very hot , I have tried different positions in the backplane - same result
Formattting a HD is yet to be tried
Best regards
Frank
Hi Frank,
You are definitely making progress. The fact that FDTST is working (format, write, and read) is excellent.
The issue with SYSGEN is pretty straightforward. You seem to be using the wrong SYSGEN program! I am utterly mystified by how you have gotten the wrong SYSGEN program on your B: (ROM) drive, but it is clearly a SYSGEN for a different CP/M system. The SYSGEN program is not generic and must be adapted to the target CP/M system, so you must use the one provided in the RomWBW distribution. I have included a session log from using the corrent SYSGEN program below.
The difficult issue is figuring out why your hardware is performing. a bit erratically. The fact that you can PIP files and get a valid directory is good. I cannot explain why it fails thereafter. If the failures are occurring AFTER you use SYSGEN, then that is the problem. Using the wrong SYSGEN will likely corrupt the disk.
I would suggest that you spend some more time using FDTST to see if your hardware is stable. Use FDTST to format the floppy, then initialize the buffer with sequential byte values, then write to the entire disk, then repeatedly run the disk verify function. The verify function should have no errors this way. If you can execute FDTST this way, then I doubt you have any real hardware problems.
From your last posts, I believe that 720K operation is working OK. Since you have switched to an 8MHz CPU clock, can you now try 1.44M operation using FDTST? In this case, make sure the floppy has an HD hole (not taped over). Using FDTST, make sure to set it up for 1.44M media, then try doing the same format, write, read operations as you did for the 720K testing. I would like to know if this is reliable as well.
Thanks,
Wayne
-----------------------------------------------------------
SYSGEN.COM 6/25/2013 v2.5.1.17 dwg - Write System Image to Storage Media
Preparing to transfer the CP/M system image to the C: drive from CPM.SYS
C: drive should be bootable now :-)
B>
Hi Douglas
this is what happens after successfully doing a format and clrdir - then trying to do a sysgen
A: is ramdisk , B: is romdisk and C: is floppy
No File
B0>sysgen
SYSGEN VER 2.0
SOURCE DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO SKIP)b
SOURCE ON B, THEN TYPE RETURN
FUNCTION COMPLETE
DESTINATION DRIVE NAME (OR RETURN TO REBOOT)c
DESTINATION ON C, THEN TYPE RETURN
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]
FD: READ 46 00 00 00 41 02 09 2A FF --> 40 04 00 00 00 07 02 [NO DATA]PERMANENT
ERROR, TYPE RETURN TO IGNORE
getting out of this error with CTRL C and then trying to do a dir c: , it just hangs
B0>dir c: , computer is locked - frozen , only way out is to reset.
Frank
Frank,
You are making progress, but you don't copy the cpm.sys file to the floppy.
The sysgen program reads the file and writes it into the proper sectors on the floppy.
For what it's worth, I think you are a lot closer today.
after you do your low level format, and you clrdir the C:, the next thing I would try
is pip'ing some of the ROMDISK files top the floppy using PIP with the V option.
IF C: is your floppy, and b: is your ROMDISK, then
b:pip c:=b:*.*[v]
I believe if you log to the C: drive, then run the b:sysgen program, it should pick up the cpm./sys file
from the ROMDRIVE and make the floppy bootable.
Best of luck,
Douglas

Post by Frank Rasmussen
Hi Vince and Douglas and Wayne
I changed the Xtal on the CPU board and made a new eprom image where speed was set to 8 MHz.
3œ" drive and a floppydisk covered the HD hole with tape.
Started the fdtst program - all Things Works perfectly , format , write (after init of buffer) read and verify also Works without errors. , so everything possible to test from fdtst program Works :-)
I can do a PIP c:=b:cpm.sys , I can also do a clrdir c: , I can do a dir c: - all Works fine, but I can't do a sysgen and I cant copy (pip) more programs onto the disk - then it just flashes the light in the drive once and nothing more happens - also on the screen - nothing , not even an error message
/Frank
I just finished Building my SBC-V2 computer, cassetteinterface, ColorVDU, DiskIO3 and ofcourse the CPU SBC-V2 Z80 board.
Power supply? I've read reports of weirdness with borderline supplies that almost provide enough current but not quite under peak loads. I've got a 5V 5A switcher and thats enough not to be an issue for a roughly similar configuration. Less might be OK, how much less is still OK with that config, I donno. Could throw a scope on the 5V line and see how weird (if at all) it gets while running your test.
Have you tried pulling the cassette and VDU cards to isolate (would have to serial console obviously). Not being plugged in would certainly prove the IO port jumpers on the cassette aren't accidentally overlapping one of the FDC IO ports or in any way have anything to do with the problem, including excessive power supply draw... Yup burn another eprom.
STEP and DIR come from the 9266 and its osc and you can hear the stepper motor go, so that rules out the 9266, the osc, the motor turns on so rule out U3 and U14. You can talk to the 9266 to start the format, so the buffers U4, U5, and U6 and the decoders U8, U9, and U11 must be good.
I'm pretty sure U2 and U13 would be irrelevant to FDC operation so ignore them too.
There's not much else left that could be the problem at an electronics device package level. Solder issues could cause weirdness of course.
Thinking about the jumpers JP1, JP2 must be good to get as far as you did, and JP8 doesn't matter for what you're doing. I don't think JP3 would fit your symptoms. I would have to think a bit about JP4, JP5, JP6, JP7 WRT your set of symptoms. I don't think JP4 fits the symptoms.
I would have to think for awhile about how to verify U12 (well, other than a dual channel O-scope). I think if INDEX isn't working then the 9266 will be very unhappy and refuse to finish formatting. So U12 is probably OK.
I don't have access to my hardware for a couple days, otherwise I'd try experimenting with JP5 JP6 and others to see if I can reproduce your symptoms.
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