[N8VEM: 19011] ECB bus pinouts -- new

Discussion:

John Coffman

2014-12-04 05:08:51 UTC

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Having posted a proposal for the expansion of the N8VEM bus to 32
address bits some weeks ago, and having heard no objections, I am
posting the updated pinout which upcoming memory board(s) and the
68030 CPU board will both use.<br>
<br>
Data bus expansion (old) to 16-bits; updated Address bus expansion
from 24 to 32 bits:<br>
<br>
        <a
href="http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/file/89957117/ECB-06.jpg" style="padding: 7px 8px; background-color: #F6FEFF; border-left: 1px solid #8FF1FF; margin: 10px 0px; display: inline-block; color: #3B5053; font-size: 13px; ">Loading Image...

</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Look under "Board Information" / "ECB Documentation" on the Wiki.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
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d***@online.de

2014-12-04 06:15:39 UTC

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John Coffman

2014-12-04 14:09:57 UTC

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Wolfgang,<br>
<br>
The data path has been 16-bits for the last 3 years, although no
boards use that wider path.<br>
<br>
The expansion of the N8VEM bus as used here is still Kontron
compatible.  The N8VEM usage makes use of pins that Kontron never
used.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/03/2014 10:15 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@online.de">***@online.de</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-8543ec53-7a06-45b5-92de-d63b2cf17709-***@3capp-1and1-bs05"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>from my point of view the ECB-Bus is an pure 8-Bit-Bus
(developed from KONTRON for Z80-CPU) with an additional option
to extend to 16 bit-CPU (especially Z8000).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>An extension to 32-Bit is from my point of view an problem
beause we have then no compatibility to "classic-ECB-boards"
and commercial ECB-boards.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Wolfgang<br>
 </div>
<div class="signature">Dr. Wolfgang Kabatzke<br>
Hansastrasse 9<br>
<br>
D - 21 502 Geesthacht<br>
Germany / Deutschland</div>
<div> 
<div> 
<div name="quote" style="margin: 10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0pt 10px 10px; border-left: 2px solid rgb(195, 217,
229); word-wrap: break-word;">
<div style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag,
04. Dezember 2014 um 06:08 Uhr<br> <b>Von:</b> "John Coffman" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com"><***@gmail.com></a><br> <b>An:</b> N8VEM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@googlegroups.com"><***@googlegroups.com></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [N8VEM: 19011] ECB bus pinouts -- new</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Having
posted a proposal for the expansion of the N8VEM bus
to 32 address bits some weeks ago, and having heard no
objections, I am posting the updated pinout which
upcoming memory board(s) and the 68030 CPU board will
both use.<br>
<br>
Data bus expansion (old) to 16-bits; updated Address
bus expansion from 24 to 32 bits:<br>
<br>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="Loading Image...

"
target="_blank">http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/file/89957117/ECB-06.jpg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Look under "Board Information" / "ECB Documentation"
on the Wiki.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
 
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Tregare

2014-12-04 06:34:29 UTC

Permalink

why not do what several systems have done (first that comes to mind is
Tandy 16 and 6000 and have an auxiliary data and address bus for 32 bit?.
on the 16/6000 it was on the back side of the card away from the system bus.

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John Coffman

2014-12-04 14:12:14 UTC

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The obvious answer is to go to 2-connector VME.<br>
<br>
The attempt here is to retain compatibility with all of the existing
I/O boards.  This compatibility is very important, IMHO.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/03/2014 10:34 PM, Tregare wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAL6Yev8h2X1-bePFfgrCYKjbXu2U5Rd50U+***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">why not do what several systems have done (first
that comes to mind is Tandy 16 and 6000 and have an auxiliary
data and address bus for 32 bit?. on the 16/6000 it was on the
back side of the card away from the system bus.<br>
</div>
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yoda

2014-12-04 15:26:20 UTC

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Hi John

Could we not go to 2 connector but not adopt VME? What I mean is leave
current connector alone so we maintain full compatibility with current
boards and add the expanded signals on the second connector. It might
solve the issue with maintaining ECB compatibility - though I am not sure
why we keep saying ECB as we are supporting more processor types than
KONTRON was intending (z80/z8000).

Dave

Post by John Coffman
The obvious answer is to go to 2-connector VME.
The attempt here is to retain compatibility with all of the existing I/O
boards. This compatibility is very important, IMHO.
--John
why not do what several systems have done (first that comes to mind is
Tandy 16 and 6000 and have an auxiliary data and address bus for 32 bit?.
on the 16/6000 it was on the back side of the card away from the system bus.
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Borut

2014-12-04 17:44:58 UTC

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Hi John,

I think it would be better to expand to 32 bits similar to VME bus.
There are two connectors, P1 and P2.
P1 carries all control signals, addresses A0-A23 and data D0-D15.
P2 carries addresses A24-A31 and data D16-D31.
I don't know for any mainstream cpu supporting 32 bit address and only 16
bit data.
Cramming additional addresses into one ECB connector would just create
another bottleneck
with data lines.

This was also the approach used by NDR Klein computers when expanded with
68020:
http://schuetz.thtec.org/DrCrazy/www.drcrazy.de/nkc/index.html

Also pcbs for 32 bit cpus would be better off in 6U format, similar to
6x0x.

VME supports systems using only P1 bus, even with 32 bit systems, where
VME space is a 16MB window in 4Gb address space (or a 64k short I/O window).

Just to be in the clear, i am not advocating all the complexities of VME
bus, nor VME signal layout.
Instead of using the remaining unused signals on ECB for additional address
lines, use them for control signals, so a
32bit card can signal back that it is 32bit capable and default would still
be 8 or 16 bit for all current boards.

On the other hand, experience with VME and even ECB shows that it is not
simple to have a very fast bus, and that
it would maybe be better to provision the memory on board to minimize
delays and just use ECB for I/O.
In which case ECB as it currently is is probably enough.
Kinda like 6x0x board does.

Best regards,
Bo/

Post by John Coffman
Hi John
Could we not go to 2 connector but not adopt VME? What I mean is leave
current connector alone so we maintain full compatibility with current
boards and add the expanded signals on the second connector. It might
solve the issue with maintaining ECB compatibility - though I am not sure
why we keep saying ECB as we are supporting more processor types than
KONTRON was intending (z80/z8000).
Dave