[N8VEM: 16740] Color VDU

[Doug Wood]

Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .

Thanks

Pictures to come.

Doug Wood

[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Doug,

Yes, from a circuit perspective it should not matter. Can you tell us more
about your configuration? What software are you using to initialize the
video chip? What type of monitor/interface are you using?

Thanks,

Wayne

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[John Coffman]

Wayne,

The P2 serial connector is a danger to the MAX232 chip. The RS-232 spec
allows any signal to be shorted to ground without doing damage to the
communications equipment.

I note that V+ and V- are connected directly to output pins to deassert
and assert certain control signals. I would protect the MAX232 chip by
connecting these voltages through 4.7K resistors.

--John

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Doug,
Yes, from a circuit perspective it should not matter. Can you tell us
more about your configuration? What software are you using to
initialize the video chip? What type of monitor/interface are you using?
Thanks,
Wayne
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the
keyboard controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot
without a keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood
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[John Coffman]

Doug,

Just a few pointers with the Color VDU:

1. The display and keyboard parts are completely separate. You can use
one without the other.
2. There is an interrupt polarity issue on the keyboard controller
output. See the Wiki for the board mods needed.
3. The VGA connector puts out EGA sync frequencies, and requires an
EGA-capable monitor. 16.257Mhz is the EGA oscillator frequency, and is
as fast as the 8563 can go. Some monitors are sensitive to sync
polarity. You have V & H sync polarity jumpers, and 4 combinations to try.
4. Use the VIA 8242 chip for the keyboard controller. Until I got the
exact chip that Dan originally used, I couldn't get the keyboard to
work. It is the chip in the pictures.

--John

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without
a keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood
--
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[Doug Wood]

Hi Wayne , John

My Keyboard chip came today. Its the VIA 8242

I am using only 2 boards , the N8 sbc ,color VDU mounted in the back plane.

you mentioned initializing the video chip. Software or a bin file loaded
onto the 8563 ?

Can the N8 output Video while communicating via the serial port ? I have 4
LCD monitors, 3 samsung ( 2494HM and SA650 ) plus an older noname 17 inch

I tried them all and saw nothing.

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
I installed the jumpers on the bottom of the board and one on the front.
For the jumpers i set them as on the front side board photo
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[John Coffman]

Doug,

Wayne would have the definitive answer, but the standard N8 RomWBW would
not have a driver for the Color VDU. You will have to configure and
assemble a custom ROM image.

s/w on startup programs the video output timing of the 8563. You'll
need an EGA compatible monitor.

--John

Post by Doug Wood
Hi Wayne , John
My Keyboard chip came today. Its the VIA 8242
I am using only 2 boards , the N8 sbc ,color VDU mounted in the back plane.
you mentioned initializing the video chip. Software or a bin file
loaded onto the 8563 ?
Can the N8 output Video while communicating via the serial port ? I
have 4 LCD monitors, 3 samsung ( 2494HM and SA650 ) plus an older
noname 17 inch
I tried them all and saw nothing.
Thanks
Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the
keyboard controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot
without a keyboard .
I installed the jumpers on the bottom of the board and one on
the front. For the jumpers i set them as on the front side board photo
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood
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[Doug Wood]

John,
I'm surprised there is not an rom image already prepared .
I wonder what all the other people have done.
Not sure i would know how to configure and assemble a custom ROM image .
With so many color VDU's built there must be one already assembled.
One of my monitors may work but wont find out till i have a Rom WBW image
that supports the Colour VDU.

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[John Coffman]

Doug,

There /are/ ROM images with the Color VDU built in; I just don't know
off-hand if there is one for the N8. Check the Wiki.

--John

Post by Doug Wood
John,
I'm surprised there is not an rom image already prepared .
I wonder what all the other people have done.
Not sure i would know how to configure and assemble a custom ROM image .
With so many color VDU's built there must be one already assembled.
One of my monitors may work but wont find out till i have a Rom WBW image
that supports the Colour VDU.
Thanks
Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the
keyboard controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot
without a keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood
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[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Doug,

Sorry for the slow response. Traveling on business this week.

John is right. There are pre-built ROMs for the Color VDU and ECB SBC Z80 combination, but not for an N8 and Color VDU combination. I have never tested Color VDU with N8. In theory, that combination could be supported by RomWBW with simple configuration changes. I will take a look at this when I am back home.

Thanks,

Wayne

[J. Alexander Jacocks]

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Doug,
Sorry for the slow response. Traveling on business this week.
John is right. There are pre-built ROMs for the Color VDU and ECB SBC Z80
combination, but not for an N8 and Color VDU combination. I have never
tested Color VDU with N8. In theory, that combination could be supported
by RomWBW with simple configuration changes. I will take a look at this
when I am back home.

All,

Has anyone manged to find an LCD monitor that will accept EGA timings, for
the ColorVDU? I have reason to believe that such a beast existed, but it's
almost impossible to figure out.

- Alex

[Dan Werner]

I have Batesias VGA LCD monitor that works, it is 17" and there are both
monitor and TV versions of this unit (mine is the monitor version). I
will check the model number when I get home. I know that John has a Visio
monitor that he has also made work.

There are also LCD monitors that are designed for CGA listed on E-bay that
would work but they are very expensive (>$400)

Dan

Post by J. Alexander Jacocks

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Doug,
Sorry for the slow response. Traveling on business this week.
John is right. There are pre-built ROMs for the Color VDU and ECB SBC
Z80 combination, but not for an N8 and Color VDU combination. I have never
tested Color VDU with N8. In theory, that combination could be supported
by RomWBW with simple configuration changes. I will take a look at this
when I am back home.

All,
Has anyone manged to find an LCD monitor that will accept EGA timings, for
the ColorVDU? I have reason to believe that such a beast existed, but it's
almost impossible to figure out.
- Alex
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[John Coffman]

Alex,

Vizio VA19L HDTV10T is what I have. I have used it with the Color VDU
(EGA), uPD7220 (VGA), & uPD7220 (SVGA), & N8 (composite).

--John

Post by Wayne Warthen
Hi Doug,
Sorry for the slow response. Traveling on business this week.
John is right. There are pre-built ROMs for the Color VDU and ECB
SBC Z80 combination, but not for an N8 and Color VDU combination.
I have never tested Color VDU with N8. In theory, that
combination could be supported by RomWBW with simple configuration
changes. I will take a look at this when I am back home.
All,
Has anyone manged to find an LCD monitor that will accept EGA timings,
for the ColorVDU? I have reason to believe that such a beast existed,
but it's almost impossible to figure out.
- Alex
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[Doug Wood]

Hi Wayne , Dan

I thought there was a pre built rom. I just tried N8vem_vdu.rom and no luck.
There is no way to tell if one of my monitors will work without a rom file
that works with my combination.
N8VEM SBC ( ECB SBC Z80 ) and color VDU. Is there someone that can
compile this combination.?

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Dan Werner]

There are some test programs that will work even without bios support.
Look in the wiki color VDU folder.

Post by Doug Wood
Hi Wayne , Dan
I thought there was a pre built rom. I just tried N8vem_vdu.rom and no luck.
There is no way to tell if one of my monitors will work without a rom file
that works with my combination.
N8VEM SBC ( ECB SBC Z80 ) and color VDU. Is there someone that can
compile this combination.?
Thanks
Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

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[p***@public.gmane.org]

I am really interested in building this board, but have two concerns:
1) Sourcing the 8042, 8563 and 4464 chips. I've done a few Google / ebay searches and only come up with very limited (if any) options
2) Monitor compatibility. In reading the posts, I am getting the feeling that the options here are also pretty limited

Are there any projects in flight to do a redesign using more easily sourced parts and monitors? I was contemplating the uPD7220, but the build looks more complicated (i.e. time consuming) and it doesn't seem to have the keyboard interface. The SCG seemed like another option. Thoughts / comments?

[J. Alexander Jacocks]

Taking Dan's suggestion, I found this, on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-19-LCD-MONITOR-DISPLAY-ARCADE-GAME-CGA-EGA-VGA-MAME-CRT-Replacement-/171136538819?pt=US_Monitor_Replacement_Parts&hash=item27d88858c3

Looks pretty darned tempting, as a bench LCD. Does anyone see a reason
that this wouldn't serve many vintage projects, well?

Thanks!
- Alex

Post by p***@public.gmane.org
1) Sourcing the 8042, 8563 and 4464 chips. I've done a few Google / ebay
searches and only come up with very limited (if any) options
2) Monitor compatibility. In reading the posts, I am getting the feeling
that the options here are also pretty limited
Are there any projects in flight to do a redesign using more easily
sourced parts and monitors? I was contemplating the uPD7220, but the build
looks more complicated (i.e. time consuming) and it doesn't seem to have
the keyboard interface. The SCG seemed like another option. Thoughts /
comments?
--
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[Andrew Lynch]

Hi

My plan is the next ECB boards for respin are the ECB color VDU and ECB
PropIO (redesigned).

I am kind of task saturated at the moment so things are taking longer than
I'd hoped but still intend to make those boards available for the builders.

There is one ECB uPD7220 GDC board left in case anyone would like to build
one.

It is a really neat board and is compatible with VGA displays at VGA
dot-clock frequencies.

It is a bit complex and does not include a keyboard interface like the ECB
Color VDU.

However it does have graphics primitives providing some acceleration of
lines, rectangles, circles, etc.

There is no restriction on the number of displays you can have on your home
brew computer.

You can use an ECB Color VDU, SCG, PropIO, and uPD7220 simultaneously with
each connected to their own monitor

The ROM BIOS will support one as the default console at boot but the rest
can be used with their appropriate drivers and programs.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 16794] Re: Color VDU
1) Sourcing the 8042, 8563 and 4464 chips. I've done a few Google / ebay
searches and only come up with very limited (if any) options
2) Monitor compatibility. In reading the posts, I am getting the feeling

that

the options here are also pretty limited
Are there any projects in flight to do a redesign using more easily

sourced

parts and monitors? I was contemplating the uPD7220, but the build looks
more complicated (i.e. time consuming) and it doesn't seem to have the
keyboard interface. The SCG seemed like another option. Thoughts /
comments?
--
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[p***@public.gmane.org]

I'd love to order a respin of the PropIO and Color VDU, although I might
need the larger backplane as well given the collection of boards I am
accumulating!

Post by Andrew Lynch
Hi
My plan is the next ECB boards for respin are the ECB color VDU and ECB
PropIO (redesigned).
I am kind of task saturated at the moment so things are taking longer than
I'd hoped but still intend to make those boards available for the builders.
There is one ECB uPD7220 GDC board left in case anyone would like to build
one.
It is a really neat board and is compatible with VGA displays at VGA
dot-clock frequencies.
It is a bit complex and does not include a keyboard interface like the ECB
Color VDU.
However it does have graphics primitives providing some acceleration of
lines, rectangles, circles, etc.
There is no restriction on the number of displays you can have on your home
brew computer.
You can use an ECB Color VDU, SCG, PropIO, and uPD7220 simultaneously with
each connected to their own monitor
The ROM BIOS will support one as the default console at boot but the rest
can be used with their appropriate drivers and programs.
Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [N8VEM: 16794] Re: Color VDU
1) Sourcing the 8042, 8563 and 4464 chips. I've done a few Google /

ebay

searches and only come up with very limited (if any) options
2) Monitor compatibility. In reading the posts, I am getting the

feeling
that

the options here are also pretty limited
Are there any projects in flight to do a redesign using more easily

sourced

parts and monitors? I was contemplating the uPD7220, but the build

looks

more complicated (i.e. time consuming) and it doesn't seem to have the
keyboard interface. The SCG seemed like another option. Thoughts /
comments?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Groups

"N8VEM" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

an

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Doug Wood]

Hi all
I foung all the CVDU test programs an have been unable to copy to the
ramdisk ( A: )
I am using xm5 and Advanced serial port terminal by Etima software on the pc
using xm protocol it keeps giving errors and craps out when about 90 %
finished copying.
Cant be running out of disk space.
Be nice to see if my monitor works on the board.
I may have to wait till someone can recompile the N8 sbc to use the color
VDU

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Doug,

Can you try XM-A0 instead of XM5?

--Wayne

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all
I foung all the CVDU test programs an have been unable to copy to the
ramdisk ( A: )
I am using xm5 and Advanced serial port terminal by Etima software on the pc
using xm protocol it keeps giving errors and craps out when about 90 %
finished copying.
Cant be running out of disk space.
Be nice to see if my monitor works on the board.
I may have to wait till someone can recompile the N8 sbc to use the color
VDU
Thanks
Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Doug Wood]

Hi Wayne,

I have tried XM but what is XM-A0

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Doug,

Assuming you are using the N8 and RomWBW, you should find XM5-A0, XM5-A1,
XM-A0, and XM-A1 applications on the ROM drive. These are all XModem
variants. The suffix (A0 vs. A1) refers to the serial port for the
transfer. The N8 has two serial ports. Most people are only using the
first serial port, so I suspect that you would only care about the A0
variants. XM refers to XModem version 12 and XM5 refers to the older
XModem version 5. Both are included because the newer version is just a
hair slower. So, I want to make sure you try XM-A0 because it is the
latest version of XModem available for the platform.

I just reread some of the emails above and I am a little confused. I
thought you were running an N8, but now I am not sure. Are you using the
N8 or the SBC? My comments above were assuming you are running an N8. If
you are running the SBC, you can try the prebuilt ROM called
N8VEM_cvdu.rom. Even if your Color VDU is not working properly, the ROM
should still function. Be sure to short JP2 to force the console to the
serial port in this case.

Thanks,

Wayne

Post by Doug Wood
Hi Wayne,
I have tried XM but what is XM-A0
Thanks
Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Doug Wood]

Hi Wayne,
Sorry for the confusion, it is the SBC i have.\
I'll try the rom image you mentioned and if it does not work
i'm going to assume that its the monitor and not the Color VDU board.
( since i have built 7 boards and they all worked fine on first power up )

Now i'm asking myself if i'm using the right ROM File.
Do you know which file is for the SBC.
I don't see any of the XM filenames you mentioned onboard.

I may have used N8vem.rom ( i dont remember )

Thanks

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Wayne Warthen]

Hi Doug,

OK, got it. The names of the boards can be confusing. Since you are using
the standard SBC (not N8), it means you are using a well proven
configuration.

You should definitely try the N8VEM_cvdu.rom prebuilt ROM file (making sure
to short JP2).

The XM variants I listed were for the N8, so ignore all of that. You
should find XM.COM and XM5.COM on your ROM drive. The SBC only has a
single UART, so there are less variants. XM.COM is XModem version 12 and
XM5.COM is XModem 5. In general, you should use XM.COM to transfer files.
It sounds like file transfers are not working well though. I have seen
some terminal emulation programs implement XModem very poorly. TeraTerm is
a known working implementation, so you may want to try that. Slowing down
the serial port speed from 38,400bps to 9600bps would also help, but that
requires building a custom ROM.

Thanks,

Wayne

Post by Doug Wood
Hi Wayne,
Sorry for the confusion, it is the SBC i have.\
I'll try the rom image you mentioned and if it does not work
i'm going to assume that its the monitor and not the Color VDU board.
( since i have built 7 boards and they all worked fine on first power up )
Now i'm asking myself if i'm using the right ROM File.
Do you know which file is for the SBC.
I don't see any of the XM filenames you mentioned onboard.
I may have used N8vem.rom ( i dont remember )
Thanks
Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Doug Wood]

Hi Wayne,
I switched to TeraTerm and the file transfers are working flawlessly .

Thanks again

Doug Wood

Post by Doug Wood
Hi all,
I just finished building the Color VDU ( still missing the keyboard
controller 8042 ).
Can anyone tell me if the video out ( VGA ) will work without the 8042 ?
I tried it and got no video. I know Sergey's XI 8088 wont boot without a
keyboard .
Thanks
Pictures to come.
Doug Wood

[Wayne Warthen]

Glad to hear it Doug.

--Wayne

Post by Doug Wood
Hi Wayne,
I switched to TeraTerm and the file transfers are working flawlessly .
Thanks again
Doug Wood