[N8VEM: 18372] SBC-188 OS Support?

[Andrew Bingham]

I'm trying to get my SBC-188 up and running with a 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy
drive.

I tried writing DOS 6.22 & 6.21 images to some floppies using WinImage, but
those just go to a "Non-system Disk or Disk Error - Insert disk and press
Enter" type error.

I tried an old FreeDOS 1.44 MB image from 2012 that was reported to work
with the Xi, said 'No' to all the highmem and expanded memory options, but
that didn't work either (I got "data errors" from the floppy driver
eventually).

Knowing that I am working with the right disk image would go a long way to
helping troubleshoot this.

I did verify that in the USB Floppy drive I used to make them, all 3 of the
above image+floppy combinations booted a Circa-2010 Core 2 Duo machine up
to DOS successfully. So I'm not sure why at least the 6.22 or 6.21 didn't
work with the SBC-188.....

At this point I guess there could be:
-A software (BIOS) or hardware problem with my SBC-188 (it gets to Tiny
Basic if no floppy is present and that seems to work okay)
-A hardware problem with the floppy drive I pulled from a bin of random
parts at the makerspace
-Some difference between the USB floppy drive I am using to make the
floppies and the floppy drive hooked

Is there some kind of ROM-based floppy test routine I can run? Write a
pattern and read it back? Would be very useful.

Andrew B.

[Richard Cini]

I have used both DOS 6.22 and 5 with no problems. The images were created on an old DOS/Windows laptop that keep around for such things, and I made masters using WinImage.

Do you have a PC with a real (not USB) floppy? You can download boot disk images from the net (search for MSDOS boot disks. I think it's called bootdisks.org). I remember it being somewhat choosy in accepting disks from certain machines I had so once I found a combo that worked I stuck with it.

I also started with a freshly bulk erased and formatted diskette to ensure no errors.



Rich Cini
Sent from my iPhone

I'm trying to get my SBC-188 up and running with a 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy drive.
I tried writing DOS 6.22 & 6.21 images to some floppies using WinImage, but those just go to a "Non-system Disk or Disk Error - Insert disk and press Enter" type error.
I tried an old FreeDOS 1.44 MB image from 2012 that was reported to work with the Xi, said 'No' to all the highmem and expanded memory options, but that didn't work either (I got "data errors" from the floppy driver eventually).
Knowing that I am working with the right disk image would go a long way to helping troubleshoot this.
I did verify that in the USB Floppy drive I used to make them, all 3 of the above image+floppy combinations booted a Circa-2010 Core 2 Duo machine up to DOS successfully. So I'm not sure why at least the 6.22 or 6.21 didn't work with the SBC-188.....
-A software (BIOS) or hardware problem with my SBC-188 (it gets to Tiny Basic if no floppy is present and that seems to work okay)
-A hardware problem with the floppy drive I pulled from a bin of random parts at the makerspace
-Some difference between the USB floppy drive I am using to make the floppies and the floppy drive hooked
Is there some kind of ROM-based floppy test routine I can run? Write a pattern and read it back? Would be very useful.
Andrew B.
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[Nikolay Dimitrov]

Hi Rich,

Do you think that USB floppies can cause issues with reading/writing DOS
disk images? These days finding a FDD in good condition is becoming a
rare thing, so USB floppies can be a viable alternative (but only if
they work properly).

Regards,
Nikolay

[Richard Cini]

I agree. I couldn't imagine why it would make a difference but I find that sometimes it does. Maybe a subtle timing difference that windows wouldn't notice but that DOS does.

That's why I keep a few old machines around. I have a Panasonic CF25 just for this. It runs windows 98 and has Pcmcia card slots for a network card and a CF reader.


Rich Cini
Sent from my iPhone

Post by Nikolay Dimitrov
Hi Rich,
Do you think that USB floppies can cause issues with reading/writing DOS disk images? These days finding a FDD in good condition is becoming a rare thing, so USB floppies can be a viable alternative (but only if they work properly).
Regards,
Nikolay
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[John Coffman]

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Andrew,<br>
<br>
Both MSDOS 5.0 and 6.22 are known to run on the SBC-188, BIOS043.&nbsp; I
was successful creating bootable floppies on an older PC which can
still run MSDOS.&nbsp; The ability to run the 'sys a:' command to
transfer the system.<br>
<br>
The DOS 6.22 disk images you refer to may, in fact, not be bootable
disks.&nbsp; The 'Non-system ... ' error message comes from the floppy
boot loader, not from the BIOS.&nbsp; Either IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS (hidden
files) were not there, or there was a disk error reading the
directory.&nbsp; There may be a head alignment difference between your
newer (USB) and older 3.5" drives.&nbsp; Bummer.&nbsp; Can the machine with
the USB drive boot DOS from the USB floppy?<br>
<br>
The latest BIOS (043) supports the DOS 'format' command, but if you
can't boot DOS, you can't get to the command to insure that your
floppies are low-level formatted to have tracks aligned with the
heads on your drive.&nbsp; A real chicken-and-egg problem.<br>
<br>
I found a bunch of NOS (new-old-stock) drives on eBay a couple of
years back.&nbsp; A new floppy drive may be the answer.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/02/2014 08:33 PM, Andrew Bingham wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:40b9b2b1-1414-43fa-901b-1c3da8373f5e-/***@public.gmane.org"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I'm trying to get my SBC-188 up and running with a
3.5" 1.44 MB floppy drive.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I tried writing DOS 6.22 &amp; 6.21 images to some floppies
using WinImage, but those just go to a "Non-system Disk or
Disk Error - Insert disk and press Enter" type error.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I tried an old FreeDOS 1.44 MB image from 2012 that was
reported to work with the Xi, said 'No' to all the highmem and
expanded memory options, but that didn't work either (I got
"data errors" from the floppy driver eventually).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Knowing that I am working with the right disk image would
go a long way to helping troubleshoot this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did verify that in the USB Floppy drive I used to make
them, all 3 of the above image+floppy combinations booted a
Circa-2010 Core 2 Duo machine up to DOS successfully. &nbsp;So I'm
not sure why at least the 6.22 or 6.21 didn't work with the
SBC-188.....</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At this point I guess there could be:</div>
<div>-A software (BIOS) or hardware problem with my SBC-188 (it
gets to Tiny Basic if no floppy is present and that seems to
work okay)</div>
<div>-A hardware problem with the floppy drive I pulled from a
bin of random parts at the makerspace</div>
<div>-Some difference between the USB floppy drive I am using to
make the floppies and the floppy drive hooked&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is there some kind of ROM-based floppy test routine I can
run? &nbsp;Write a pattern and read it back? &nbsp;Would be very useful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrew B.</div>
</div>
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[Andrew Bingham]

John,

I got ahold of am old Pentium Socket 7 desktop machine with a 3.5" floppy
drive and tried the boot floppies on that, and they all booted just fine.
So I pulled that drive to use with my SBC-188 and it also booted just
fine. MS-DOS 6.22, DR-DOS 7.03, and the FDOS FreeDOS distribution floppy
that is supposed to work on any 8086+ all booted.

The first floppy drive that I tried must have been bad....

Andrew

Post by John Coffman
Andrew,
Both MSDOS 5.0 and 6.22 are known to run on the SBC-188, BIOS043. I was
successful creating bootable floppies on an older PC which can still run
MSDOS. The ability to run the 'sys a:' command to transfer the system.
The DOS 6.22 disk images you refer to may, in fact, not be bootable
disks. The 'Non-system ... ' error message comes from the floppy boot
loader, not from the BIOS. Either IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS (hidden files) were
not there, or there was a disk error reading the directory. There may be a
head alignment difference between your newer (USB) and older 3.5" drives.
Bummer. Can the machine with the USB drive boot DOS from the USB floppy?
The latest BIOS (043) supports the DOS 'format' command, but if you can't
boot DOS, you can't get to the command to insure that your floppies are
low-level formatted to have tracks aligned with the heads on your drive. A
real chicken-and-egg problem.
I found a bunch of NOS (new-old-stock) drives on eBay a couple of years
back. A new floppy drive may be the answer.
--John
I'm trying to get my SBC-188 up and running with a 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy
drive.
I tried writing DOS 6.22 & 6.21 images to some floppies using WinImage,
but those just go to a "Non-system Disk or Disk Error - Insert disk and
press Enter" type error.
I tried an old FreeDOS 1.44 MB image from 2012 that was reported to work
with the Xi, said 'No' to all the highmem and expanded memory options, but
that didn't work either (I got "data errors" from the floppy driver
eventually).
Knowing that I am working with the right disk image would go a long way
to helping troubleshoot this.
I did verify that in the USB Floppy drive I used to make them, all 3 of
the above image+floppy combinations booted a Circa-2010 Core 2 Duo machine
up to DOS successfully. So I'm not sure why at least the 6.22 or 6.21
didn't work with the SBC-188.....
-A software (BIOS) or hardware problem with my SBC-188 (it gets to Tiny
Basic if no floppy is present and that seems to work okay)
-A hardware problem with the floppy drive I pulled from a bin of random
parts at the makerspace
-Some difference between the USB floppy drive I am using to make the
floppies and the floppy drive hooked
Is there some kind of ROM-based floppy test routine I can run? Write a
pattern and read it back? Would be very useful.
Andrew B.
--
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